Advice/Comments/Suggestions Requested

[ensign.fodder]

Here is what I have:

AMD Phenom X4 9850+ Black Edition 2500MHz @ 2750MHz
Asus Crosshair II Formula 780a SLI AM2
8192 MB of OCZ Reaper 5-5-5-15-24-2T
MSI 260 GTX (620/1080/1296 - Core/Memory/Shader)
RAID 1 Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/16MB 320.0 GB @ 7200 RPM
Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA II w/16MB Cache (Pr0n)
Thermaltake Symphony Radiator
Swiftech MCP355 w/Custom Delrin Pump Top
D-Tek Fuzion V2 CPU Waterblock
D-Tek GPU Fuzion V2 with Uni-Sink
PrimoChill Typhoon Dual Floppy Bay Reservoir
Cooler Master Mystique 631

My loop (1/4 ID) is pump out out a set of FuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFuKo olKRAPFuFuFuFuFuFuFuFu QDC's to Symphony back though another set of QDC's to a nozzle body/splitter to the GPU/CPU to the reservoir to the pump.

I am adding another 260GTX, changing to DD Tieton blocks for the cards, and replumbing the inside with 3/8 ID.

In order to go SLI I have to change the location of the pump. Currently it is at the bottom of the case next to the hard drives but it would interfere/occupy the same space as the second card.

What I would like to do:

My loop is pump out out a set of High Flow QDC's to Symphony back though another set of HF QDC's to a splitter/manifold to GPU1/GPU2/CPU to the reservoir to the pump.

Problem is that I cannot find a reservoir that has a pump that accepts more then one return. I know my loop is already horrible restrictive and the 3>1 would certainly not help.

I have 2 5.25" drive bays open and was looking at getting the XSPC Acrylic Dual 5.25in Reservoir for Laing DDC and using my existing 355. but how to get three return is the problem.

Now I accept that I may be completely of my rocker and should just use an SLI bridge for GPU1 and GPU2 but I would still have a 2>1 problem at the reservoir.

I cannot seem to find any reservoirs that have more then a single return that cost less then about $60.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[vanarnam]

does it need to be a bay res?

[slpdLoad]

Dump the splitters and just run all your stuff in series...The 355 can handle a lot more than what you've got in your loop.

But to answer your question...pick one of the EK tube reservoirs and buy a second multi-option top for the other end. That will give you up to 5 inputs with 1 outlet. (3 holes per top)

[Floyd]

Why not just run it in a "traditional" way and just run all the components together? Not sure why you are trying to split them. Post up a picture of your setup thus far.

Pump->cpu->gpu1->gpu2->rad->res

[RedRaider]

dump the manifold bro and that FuFuFuFuFuFuFuFu garbage...



btw, to RRTech

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by vanarnam

does it need to be a bay res?

No but the CM 631 is a small mid-tower and there is not a lot of space especially with the SLI. It would have to go in the 5.25" area, but it does not have to be a true "bay" res.

Originally Posted by slpdLoad

Dump the splitters and just run all your stuff in series...The 355 can handle a lot more than what you've got in your loop.

My reason for the splitters was that I thought (feel free to correct) that my temps would be better running individual lines to each component instead of in series. That way the last in line is not sucking on the heat from the earlier components.

Originally Posted by slpdLoad

But to answer your question...pick one of the EK tube reservoirs and buy a second multi-option top for the other end. That will give you up to 5 inputs with 1 outlet. (3 holes per top)

I will check it out but see above about space orientation constraints.

Originally Posted by Floyd

Why not just run it in a "traditional" way and just run all the components together? Not sure why you are trying to split them. Post up a picture of your setup thus far.

Pump->cpu->gpu1->gpu2->rad->res

See above for the "why" Pics later tonight.

Originally Posted by RedRaider

dump the manifold bro and that FuFuFuFuFuFuFuFu garbage...



btw, to RRTech

Yes I am aware of the FuFuFuFuFuFuFuFu issues.

Thanks for the welcome and the responses.

[Hondacity]

i have those blocks...from dtek..they're hardly restrictive...

i'm wondering how you can get 3 returns.....using a spliter? in that case you're doing parallel loops...

parallel loops are ok only if the restrictions are equal on each leg of that loop...

but i'll wait for your pics...

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Hondacity

i have those blocks...from dtek..they're hardly restrictive...

I was more concerned with the tubing size and rad being the restrictive parts of my loop.

Originally Posted by Hondacity

i'm wondering how you can get 3 returns.....using a spliter? in that case you're doing parallel loops...

parallel loops are ok only if the restrictions are equal on each leg of that loop...

but i'll wait for your pics...

I did not think of that. Currently giving either loop a pinch does cause the other to flex and I can see in the current res that both are flowing but I have never checked to see how dissimilar the flow rates might be.

Thanks!

[Hondacity]

there was a review made by ...cathar? on tubes..they hardly restrict...pressure drop isn't so bad....

also rads are also free flowing...if you look at a cut away of must rads..there are lots of parallel lines...

what rad specifically do you have? edit..thermaltake hmmmm i wouldn't worry about it...

[Floyd]

I have my 355 pushing through 2 huge radiators 2 full cover GPU blocks and a CPU block with about 4-5 feet of hose and it still has more power to push the water.

Also man dont worry about order of things because once everything heats up the water is the same temp no matter what the order is. Just run it in series and go to town.

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Floyd

I have my 355 pushing through 2 huge radiators 2 full cover GPU blocks and a CPU block with about 4-5 feet of hose and it still has more power to push the water.

Good to know.

Originally Posted by Floyd

Also man dont worry about order of things because once everything heats up the water is the same temp no matter what the order is. Just run it in series and go to town.

I understand what you are saying but I would disagree. Now I do not know how much difference there is from entrance GPU1 to exit CPU or if it makes a difference but there has to be some change in temperature.

Thanks

[Floyd]

Originally Posted by ensign.fodder

I understand what you are saying but I would disagree. Now I do not know how much difference there is from entrance GPU1 to exit CPU or if it makes a difference but there has to be some change in temperature.

Trust me when I say it doesnt make a difference in what order you put things.
Once the water is heated up it doesnt matter because the water is all the same temp. Ive done many many different configurations to prove this.

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Trust me when I say it doesnt make a difference in what order you put things.
Once the water is heated up it doesnt matter because the water is all the same temp. Ive done many many different configurations to prove this.

When you say it does not matter you mean any actual difference is insignificant or something else?

I am just having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that the fluid is not any hotter after passing through two GPU blocks and a CPU block.

Thanks!

[ablatman]

Originally Posted by ensign.fodder

When you say it does not matter you mean any actual difference is insignificant or something else?

A little of that -- basically, once the fluid heats up to operating temp, it's more or less circulating around the loop without varying it's temperature much; the difference between the hottest point for the water and the coolest isn't all that much. Basically, as long as you've got sufficient flow the water flows around fast enough that it doesn't pick up a lot of heat per pass such that the inlet temperature and outlet temperature of the block are extremely close.

[Merby]

Since the specific heat of liquid water is constant, and the copper blocks have much higher thermal conductivity then water, the best way you can increase heat transfer from the blocks is by increasing flow rate. This increases the amount of atomic collissions to transfer heat. Of course your limit is how much heat the radiators can remove from the loop. And like ablatman said the water doesn't pick up a lot of heat per pass. Heat does transfer faster from say a 'warmer block to colder water" then "warmer block to warmer water", but the amount of heat you pick up is small so the inlet and outlet temps aren't that different. Err i suck at explaining physics.

[CrazyJoe]

Originally Posted by Merby

Since the specific heat of liquid water is constant, and the copper blocks have much higher thermal conductivity then water, the only way you can increase heat transfer from the blocks is by increasing flow rate. This increases the amount of atomic collissions to transfer heat. Of course your limit is how much heat the radiators can remove from the loop. And like ablatman said the water doesn't pick up a lot of heat per pass. Heat does transfer faster from say a warmer block to colder water, but the amount of heat you pick up is small so the inlet and outlet temps aren't that different.

ummm ... not quite.

Because of this being a closed loop ... a change in flow will only modify the residence time the water has with the radiator as well as the water-blocks.

For example ...

* Lets assume the water is flowing at 2.5 gallons per minute and passes through the radiator and water-blocks 1 time every 60 seconds.

Now, lets double the flow-rate.

* Water flowing at 5.0 gallons per minute will pass through the radiator and the water-blocks once every 30 seconds ... or 2 times every 60 seconds.

Half the residence time but contacting the blocks / radiators twice as often as before.

So, even with double the flow, you still end up with exactly the same residence time every 60 seconds.

The only way to cool your system more is with a more efficient water-block or radiator. Neither flow nor pressure can do much for you directly ... unless the water-block or radiator are designed to take advantage of the increased pressure. Perhaps with impingement jets and the like. This would then give you the "atomic collisions" you mentioned earlier. Essentially causing more turbulence and thus more heat transfer.

Hope this helps !

[Merby]

Sorry. I'm really bad at explaining it. But you stated it perfectly :P. I just got lazy when typing and said 'your limit is how much heat the radiators can remove from the loop'.

Wish we had a thread for formulas/calculations.

[ensign.fodder]

[Marne]

welcome to the forums.

im sorry i have to say it.
WTF happened in there. you can simplify that whole loop and cut down on mad unnecessary shit

from what i can tell your cooling

CPU
Video card

using that fugly ass external rad/air ionizer lookin thing and a shitty typhoon bay res.


ill try and find you a simpler solution that will help with temps and wont break bank.

[Septim]

Welcome to RealRedRaiders.com

hmm Tt Symphony, still stock aluminum radiator inside? time to gut it then...

marne, i don't think that there would be a solution wherein he wouldn't have to break the piggy bank...

change of radiator inside that symphony is highly recommended, plus some additional plumbing to convert it to 3/8 or 1/2 id tubing usage.

and if you're dumping those small quick disconnects, i suggest some brass/copper ball valves (you may need to spill a little liquid when disconnecting, but at least you know it don't have aluminum or steel in it.)

Loop Arrangement: series everything: pump to cpu block to gpu block to rad back to reservior.

if you're looking for bay res and have the space, the xspc dual bay res for dual ddc fits nicely, of course another ddc pump for redundancy is also suggested.

copper/brass radiator: cheapest MCR to nicest BlackIce SR-1 or Thermochill PA rads
fans: Gentle Typhoons or sFlex-g or f
fittings: Bitspower Rotary Fittings are highly recommended.

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Marne_Aeok

welcome to the forums.

im sorry i have to say it.
WTF happened in there. you can simplify that whole loop and cut down on mad unnecessary shit

from what i can tell your cooling

CPU
Video card

using that fugly ass external rad/air ionizer lookin thing and a shitty typhoon bay res.


ill try and find you a simpler solution that will help with temps and wont break bank.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes I am only cooling the GPU (about to goto SLI) and the CPU. The MB is a ASUS Crosshairs II so there is not much available for NB/SB.

As to the fugly Symphony and shitty typhoon, I need the rad to be external to the desk since my wife loves to close the doors and shut the PC off from the world, and the res was the only one I could find with multiple return ports.

I am still unsure of running everything in series mostly cause my little brain seems to be missing a main concept, but that aside for now let me know what you come up with.

Thanks again.

[Floyd]

Originally Posted by ensign.fodder

I am still unsure of running everything in series mostly cause my little brain seems to be missing a main concept, but that aside for now let me know what you come up with.

The only way your temps would change is if you added/removed something like another CPU or GPU.

If you are adding 300watts of heat to the loop it doesnt matter what order the parts are in because your still producing 300watts.

CPU(100w)->GPU(100w)->GPU(100w)=300w
GPU(100w)->CPU(100w)->GPU(100w)=300w

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Septim

Welcome to RealRedRaiders.com

hmm Tt Symphony, still stock aluminum radiator inside? time to gut it then...

marne, i don't think that there would be a solution wherein he wouldn't have to break the piggy bank...

change of radiator inside that symphony is highly recommended, plus some additional plumbing to convert it to 3/8 or 1/2 id tubing usage.

and if you're dumping those small quick disconnects, i suggest some brass/copper ball valves (you may need to spill a little liquid when disconnecting, but at least you know it don't have aluminum or steel in it.)

Loop Arrangement: series everything: pump to cpu block to gpu block to rad back to reservior.

I have thought about replacing the Thermaltake rad with something "real" but I have not had time to tear it down and take any measurements.

As to breaking the piggy bank - wife, son in private school, mortgage, car payments, etc. There is not much in the bank to get out at any one time. This may be a more long term transition project.

Originally Posted by Septim

if you're looking for bay res and have the space, the xspc dual bay res for dual ddc fits nicely, of course another ddc pump for redundancy is also suggested.

copper/brass radiator: cheapest MCR to nicest BlackIce SR-1 or Thermochill PA rads
fans: Gentle Typhoons or sFlex-g or f
fittings: Bitspower Rotary Fittings are highly recommended.

I have looked at all those at one time or another. I am currently debating the one or two pump XSPC bay res, as I only have the single DDC. If I had two how would you propose to run the loop?

Thanks!

[ensign.fodder]

Originally Posted by Floyd

The only way your temps would change is if you added/removed something like another CPU or GPU.

If you are adding 300watts of heat to the loop it doesnt matter what order the parts are in because your still producing 300watts.

CPU(100w)->GPU(100w)->GPU(100w)=300w
GPU(100w)->CPU(100w)->GPU(100w)=300w

I get that the total heat produced is the same no matter how I plumb the loop, but my understanding of (flawed as it may be) of thermal dynamics says that the amount of heat that is transferred between two dissimilar points (excluding the thermal transfer properties of the materials) is a function of the difference in temperature and the time. So in my mind the last point in the loop will be less able to shed heat since the differential temperature is less.

But in doing a little Googling around I see that it is a common tenet of WC that it does not matter. I will look for someone who provides a good write up of why.

Thanks for your paitence on this question.

[Floyd]

Thats fine if you would like to look more into it but I was just trying to save you the time and headaches that most on this site have been through.