New Ek v2 and dual review.

[Eddie3dfx]

http://www.dexgo.com/index.php?site=artikel/view.php&id=329&rubrik=Hardware&seite=2


wow..

What I wish they would show is how a dual would compare to 2 v2's in series.

[Armeniandave]

I wish they would speak English so I could read the whole review.
Based on the charts it doesn't look like it's worth the extra money.
I wonder if the little extra it has would make any significant difference
In temps? Or is the main benefit having a backup pump?

[RedRaider]

IMO, it's more for redundancy.

[Snyxxx]

I have three of the single V2s coming. Was suppose to be here last week, but UPS goofed up and now it will not be here until the 23rd. I will post flow results when I can.

[mcoffey]

I wish they would speak English so I could read the whole review.
Based on the charts it doesn't look like it's worth the extra money.
I wonder if the little extra it has would make any significant difference
In temps? Or is the main benefit having a backup pump?

I with you 100%. If it's not presented in English, with the appropriate graphs and charts in English, it's of no fucking use to me. I can understand it if the forum or mag originates in another country. But posting reviews or testing in a language other than English in a US based forum should be against the rules IMO.

So based on that review I don't know anymore about now than I did before regarding performance and pump tops.

my 2 cents,

andyc

[HESmelaugh]

Hi there.

The linked review happens to be one of mine. Two things:

1. I only did rudimentary testing (i.e. no comparison to two separate pumps in serial and some other things I had planned) because one of the pumps died during the testing.
The guys at Laing got me a replacement (they have some really great, helpful people there and they helped me with a ton of questions I had :up:) but by the time it arrived, I was already busy with other tests. In the end I just decided to publish the data I had already gathered.

2. If you really want, I can translate the review and post it here.

Someone from Forumdeluxx will test the pumps in serial vs. a dual top. Maybe I can get his permission to publish his data here also.

[smee]

Guys, Google Translate is yo friend!!
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dexgo.com%2Findex.php%3Fsite%3D artikel%2Fview.php%26id%3D329%26rubrik%3DHardware% 26seite%3D2&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Full english. :up:

*goes and reads*

Edit:
HESmelaugh, just saw your post.
Great review and great pics. :up:

Edit2:
hmmmm, so maybe it's not worth it to go with two DDC3.2's and the dualy top....
I was hoping that it'd be pretty close with an Iwaki (like 3/4ths as much power) but I guess not.
I just stick with D5's for now then.... they've always been good in my experiences. :)

[mcoffey]

Guys, Google Translate is yo friend!!
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dexgo.com%2Findex.php%3Fsite%3D artikel%2Fview.php%26id%3D329%26rubrik%3DHardware% 26seite%3D2&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Full english. :up:

*goes and reads*

Edit:
HESmelaugh, just saw your post.
Great review and great pics. :up:

Edit2:
hmmmm, so maybe it's not worth it to go with two DDC3.2's and the dualy top....
I was hoping that it'd be pretty close with an Iwaki (like 3/4ths as much power) but I guess not.
I just stick with D5's for now then.... they've always been good in my experiences. :)

Thanks,

I use Google T quite often, but still doesn't help with all the data like graps and such. But those are where I get the majority of info from. This one translates pretty well, but other are still almost unreadable even after translation.

One thing to keep in ming, those are tested with the weaker Laing DDC 1T. Or was that lost in the translation:D

Hi there.

The linked review happens to be one of mine. Two things:

1. I only did rudimentary testing (i.e. no comparison to two separate pumps in serial and some other things I had planned) because one of the pumps died during the testing.
The guys at Laing got me a replacement (they have some really great, helpful people there and they helped me with a ton of questions I had :up:) but by the time it arrived, I was already busy with other tests. In the end I just decided to publish the data I had already gathered.

2. If you really want, I can translate the review and post it here.

Someone from Forumdeluxx will test the pumps in serial vs. a dual top. Maybe I can get his permission to publish his data here also.


I for one would love to see your work translated fully in English. I enjoy your reviews, but need to get all the info possible for them to be really useful. For a knot head like myself, English helps a lot with understanding the more subtle details.

andyc

[HESmelaugh]

One thing to keep in ming, those are tested with the weaker Laing DDC 1T. Or was that lost in the translation:D


The tests were done with the Laing DDC1T+. It's the ones Swiftech rebrands as MCP355. I figured it would make little sense to dual-pump the weaker version, right?

[mcoffey]

The tests were done with the Laing DDC1T+. It's the ones Swiftech rebrands as MCP355. I figured it would make little sense to dual-pump the weaker version, right?

OK cool,

My mistake, haven't seen those referenced by that version number.

andyc

[skinnee]

Did you test for dynamic head pressure? Flow is worthless without knowing pressure as well.

[HESmelaugh]

Nope. No tools to test it and no place to hang long enough tubing.

I've been thinking about investing in the tools necessary for pressure testing but I'm not sure it's worth it. What's more, it looks like I've lost my most important sponsor, so investing more in my already super-expesive test rig might be a dumb move right now...

[skinnee]

Nope. No tools to test it and no place to hang long enough tubing.

I've been thinking about investing in the tools necessary for pressure testing but I'm not sure it's worth it. What's more, it looks like I've lost my most important sponsor, so investing more in my already super-expesive test rig might be a dumb move right now...

The tubing height thing is worthless, doesn't tell you dynamic head pressure in order to do a proper P/Q curve.

Tests on pumps that do not give dynamic head pressure are only half a test and IMO misguiding to potential buyers.

[utnorris]

I use a dual EK top in my setup since it is a single loop and I get good results temp wise, no idea of flow or pressure, but it does seem to be pushing the water quickly and forcefully based on the turbelance in the micro res.

[HESmelaugh]

Can someone explain to me what benefit higher pressure brings, other than higher flow-rates?

Even the benefit of more flow is a bit questionable above a certain level and I simply don't know/understand how pressure affects the performance in a watercooling loop.

[utnorris]

I don't disagree, but in my case I have the HD4870x2 block, cpu block, nb, sb, mosfets, micro res and pa120.3, I kinda need the extra pressure/flow.

[mcoffey]

Dymanic head presure gives the pump the ability to over come restriction in the loop such as blocks to provide proper flow. The more, the better.

andyc

[NAekuh]

its not a good top..

also the review is almost very pointless..

you serial dual pumps why? Head pressure.... so we want a chart with head pressure.

Instead we get a chart of FLOW? Why??? you only gain flow when its paralell.

So from looking at that chart, the watercool top must either suck horribly, or have UBER head pressure, because there contrast of each other... (remember your thumb and garden hose)

As for the EK Dual Top, i think like andy states, its total redundancy.... I still think dual tops need dual inlets.

Water is not compressible, so you want more flow at inlet (DUAL INLET), and a tighter outlet (SINGLE OUTLET).... so you get a harder head pressure...

[Snyxxx]

I still think dual tops need dual inlets.

Water is not compressible, so you want more flow at inlet (DUAL INLET), and a tighter outlet (SINGLE OUTLET).... so you get a harder head pressure...

Absolutely the fundamental problem with these dual tops. Look at the performance hit when using the side inlet versus top inlet on a single top.

[skinnee]

I have a hard time explaining this in lehmans terms or using analogies, fluid dynamics and thermodynamics is one of those things I can learn but cannot externalize well.

Pressure is the force behind the water in your loop, without pressure water would still flow. It is pressure through the blocks that is of major importance, as pressure is the key that gives initial impact to the block, turbulance in the block. But flow rate is what moves the water out of the block, well flow and suction pressure in the closed loop.

I know I am leaving a bunch out...take a look a Bernoulli's Principle for more info. And if you really want to dive in, start reading fluid dynamics and thermodynamics.

[HESmelaugh]

Alright, I think I'm starting to understand some of it.

Well, I have one thing that I'm really curious about now: Is there an example of a pump out there that will result in superior cooling performance even though it produces less flow, once the heat dump of the pump is factored out.
I.e. is it possible to get less flow but more pressure in such a degree that it makes a measurable difference to the cooling performance?
If so, I have some serious testing to do. :-)

Thanks for your help so far, guys!

[NAekuh]

oh its your review?? LOL

i appologize for the rude comments..

yeah we need head pressure charts... im actually interested in that watercool top now...

As i said, flow and pressure is contrast, you cant have uber flow and uber pressure on the pumps we have.

If your having a hard time visualizing this, think of a garden hose... That is a pump with no resistance..
Now plug the hole half way with your thumb... that is an accelerator and you get head pressure @ cost of flow...

do you get it?

When we serial pumps, stack them next to each other, you gain head pressure but you dont gain flow... reason is because the impeller can only spin so fast, so you wont move that much more water as if it was completely unobstructed.

But, when you do have pressure, like a restrictive block, both impellers push water to get max pressure.

This is why pressure graphs are important when you do 2 pumps in a series...


Now to answer your last question and get you started on your restest...
Why is head pressure important? Well if your running a low restriction block it isnt... you want flow for the lower delta...
If your running an accelerator block, you want that head pressure. Reason is more head pressure comes more impact and more turbulance.. This in turn causes more molecules to be picked up by water per pass since you have greater impact.

Also remember water can only pick up a set amount of molecules... this is why that low flow arguement holds false... Myth thinking says let the water sit longer and collect more molecules... well no.. it can only pick up X molecules to begin with... More flow = more passes at the rad = lower delta... Remember your loop always tries to maintain equalibrium.

With greater impact and greater turbulance you get better efficiency... but the cost and gains get uber expensive, and very small as you climb up that apex..

in laymens term, those of us that run dual pumps or rd-30 is like the people who are trying to grab that sub 3 sec. 0-60 time in cars. The lower you want, the exponetially expensive it gets for a measy .x decrease... :P


OH HES one last thing... pumps do not just have pressure.. they also have suction.... this variable is a BIYATCH and messes up paralell designs all the time...

Once again remember water is not compressible.. and physics states for every action an oposite and equal reaction must occur, so that head pressure you pushing, you need to be pulling in that excess as well....

pump testing sucks... lol... martin didnt even want to get into dual setups because he was worried i was gonna blow his old meter... when he got his new one, vendors decided to dump a ton of items for him to test b4 he could finish my dual pump testing...

[bigslappy]

what price are we looking @ ?

Damn top is bigger than the pump L O L

damn that setup (dual pumps & top ) is gonna be near the price of an Iwaki

[HESmelaugh]

@bigslappy: Over here, I can get the EK dual top for about 33 USD and the watercool one for about 50 USD.

The really pricey thing is the two pumps...

@NaeKuh: No worries, I didn't take that personally.
The garden hose example makes a lot of sense to me. But it still seems to me like more head pressure would simply result in higher flow rates @ higher restriction. This is why I test the flow rates at different levels of restriction. I'm trying to substitute for the missing pressure tests, so to speak...
Sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake with all this pressure stuff. I guess I really should study fluid dynamics.

I'll have to consult my bank account about getting a Manometer. Don't know if that fits in with all my other expensive hobbies.. ^^

[NAekuh]

hehehe... reread my edit.. i tried to clear up why you wont get more flow..

i think that should make sense..

(in an unrestricted loop)
its because the impeller can only spin at X RPM's...
having 2 would still make them spin at X RPMs because the motors can only spin at X RPM's.

So to have more flow you need X+1 RPM's yet you cant do that on a series..

on a paralell you have 2 lines so your total flow is (X RPM x 2) so you get double flow because you have 2 lines.... does this make sense?