Lens Filters

[RedRaider]

I will be buying the following this week:

Nikon D90 Kit w/ 70-300mm(f/4-5.6G) AF-S (VRII) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=588972&is=REG)

Nikon 18mm - 55mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX (VR) (http://www.adorama.com/NK1855VRU.html)

Is it necessary to buy UV/Haze Filters for these lenses? What other filters should I contemplate?

HOYA 67mm UV/Haze Filters (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&sb=bs%2Cupper(ds)&sq=asc&sortDrop=Brand%3A+A+to+Z&ac=&bsi=&bhs=t&shs=&ci=112&at=Size_67mm&at=Brand_Hoya&basicSubmit=Submit+Query)

HOYA 52mm UV/Haze Filters (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=bs%2Cupper(ds)&sq=asc&sortDrop=Brand%3A+A+to+Z&ac=&bsi=&bhs=t&shs=&ci=112&at=Size_52mm&at=Brand_Hoya&basicSubmit=Submit+Query)

[Snyxxx]

Most would recommend a clear filter for protection from an accidental bump. Most use the sun shield as this protection.

However, I have never got around to it for me and some say image quality could be degraded.

[ZeniTH]

http://www.amazon.com/Hoya-Ultra-Violet-Coated-Filter/dp/B00009R98B/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235332723&sr=8-3

this is one of the best filters I use it myself.... you just have to look for the one that match your lens diameter....

[RedRaider]

The 70-300 comes with the Flower Petal hood,that's all I'll be using for now.

Does UV light damage the lens in any way?

[rubidium]

UV filters make for good lens protection, but today offer very little else in terms of results. Lenses are not damaged by UV. Historically, their use was to reduce haziness or fogginess created by ultraviolet light with certain orthochromatic films (having emulsions with peak sensitivity to blue and green light).

One of the best, and most cost effective, "accessories" to have IMHO is a good circular polarizier for your lens. So many washed-out images having poor color saturation can be avoided by snuffing out specular reflections from objects in the image with a circular pol.

rubidium

[Silverion77]

^^ exactly what rubidium said

All filters essentially are "protection" filters cause it prevents the lens from being scratched and keeps dust and smudges off (better to have a $20 filter vs. a $250+ or in some cases $1000+). All the lens is is different structured glass to alter light rays so light can't damage it, but dropping them can ;)
UV filters were used to stop haziness specifically making skies more blue like they look.
Polarized filters are also great. They saturate the colors of the image and reduce reflection like in windows and water.

[ZeniTH]

UV filters make for good lens protection, but today offer very little else in terms of results. Lenses are not damaged by UV. Historically, their use was to reduce haziness or fogginess created by ultraviolet light with certain orthochromatic films (having emulsions with peak sensitivity to blue and green light).

One of the best, and most cost effective, "accessories" to have IMHO is a good circular polarizier for your lens. So many washed-out images having poor color saturation can be avoided by snuffing out specular reflections from objects in the image with a circular pol.

rubidium

+1.... excellent explanation !!!

[RedRaider]

So a UV filter would be better for shooting my son in outdoor sports, rather than the flower petal hood? If so, which one that I linked in the first post l, would diminish the picture the least. Hard to believe a $20-$50 glass filter is ground as well as a $500 lens...

Which circular polarizer would be best at BH Photo? I've read everyone praising HOYA on lots of forums (Ken Rockwell loves them). I'll need a 52mm and 67mm...

Thanks for all the great advice guys, I'm new to the world of photography..:up:

[Silverion77]

U can have both, the hood as well as the filter (as long as the system is the same as my 55-200VR)
The filters are threaded and screw on where as the hood uses a simple turn and lock on the outside of the thread.
I've never seen a filter do damage to picture quality, but rather enhance them. The only REAL problem is that they limit light coming into the lens meaning longer exposure so outdoors in nice light it will be no complaint, but it can be troublesome for shooting inside a Florentine Church (my recent photo shoots :) )

Hoya is probably the best, but u are paying for the name as they are expensive (similar to Bose in audio....etc.).

[RedRaider]

Thanks...

Is there a real difference between the $20 and $30 and $50 HOYA UV or Polarizing filters???

[Silverion77]

Coating i assume

More coats supposedly means better images but i dont really think it matters

[RedRaider]

Marketing bullshit.... Many thanks Silveron...:up:

Do you use the circular polarizer indoors or outdoors???

[Silverion77]

Sadly i dont have one yet
Its on my order list...i have some cheapo UV's on atm, but they do the job

Theres a nice Hoya kit i remember with a polarizer, UV and warming filter but that was like a year ago

[RedRaider]

WTF is a warming filter???

I'll look for the kit..;)

Why didn't someone tell me that the cracked out addiction to WaterCooling would lead to the even more cracked out and über expensive addiction to DSLR's...:crack:

[Silverion77]

It can an expensive hobby....but it doesn't have to be.
I love my little D50 :D

Warming filters (depending on the level) are basically tinted filters. Orange...
They are great to have for some shots. Not everyday use..
Especially Fall....something u Texans dont have :P

One main thing ull have to get used to is the fun viewfinder
I kno the D90 has live view but thats like sin in the SLR world :D

[RedRaider]

Live View.....FTW

:crack: :coke: :crack:

The only season in SouthEast Texas is Summer...:cool:

[smee]

Use the filter and lens hood, lens hood isn't made for protection of your lens, it's to help give the picture light in all area's of the glass.

My dad explained this to me in detail, but in short, the hood helps to make the picture look better without unnecessary light effecting the picture.

Filters are there to not only protect your lenses glass, but used to help keep glare down, and then theres also other types filters that do different things with the pictures.
But the main one you should always use is a UV coated glass.

B+W makes pretty much the best filters, but pretty pricy...
I can't justify paying $80+ on a piece of glass really, especially when first starting out with DSLR's.
However my dad use's B+W.
I go with Hoya or Quantaray (both are the same company AFAIK), $40-50 is a good price for a UV coated filter.

[rubidium]

Why didn't someone tell me that the cracked out addiction to WaterCooling would lead to the even more cracked out and über expensive addiction to DSLR's...:crack:

If you go off the deep end like I have over the course of 20 years, you'll need to get a safe to store your optics. :coke:

[RedRaider]

Macro lens will be coming soon after the initial camera purchase....:crack:

[rubidium]

Bottom line on filters: The best filters on the planet are B+W (Schneider) and Heliopan, and they're also the most expensive. The only situations where their superiority shines through and they are really worth the money are when using filters with extreme wide angle lenses in very harsh lighting conditions (e.g. sun in the field of view, or night time street scenes with lots of point-source lights.) Hoya probably offers the best quality/price compromise. Avoid Tiffen.

Despite what non-filter purists say, a good UV filter is cheap insurance against damaging your expensive lenses, without compromising image quality like the purists claim. Lens elements are generally soft and can be easily scratched, nicked, or etched by fingerprints, acid rain, etc. Also, when used with caution, the absolute bottom line on optics cleaning is here: http://www.photoniccleaning.com/.

rubidium

[RedRaider]

Rubidium, should I then buy a B+W UV filter for the 70-300mm since it will be used for outdoor daylight sports shots. Lots of situations will be with direct sun shots in field of view.

Kindly provide me with a lamens terms synopsis on circular polarizer filters..:)

[Lu(ky]

Bottom line on filters: The best filters on the planet are B+W (Schneider) and Heliopan, and they're also the most expensive. The only situations where their superiority shines through and they are really worth the money are when using filters with extreme wide angle lenses in very harsh lighting conditions (e.g. sun in the field of view, or night time street scenes with lots of point-source lights.) Hoya probably offers the best quality/price compromise. Avoid Tiffen.

Despite what non-filter purists say, a good UV filter is cheap insurance against damaging your expensive lenses, without compromising image quality like the purists claim. Lens elements are generally soft and can be easily scratched, nicked, or etched by fingerprints, acid rain, etc. Also, when used with caution, the absolute bottom line on optics cleaning is here: http://www.photoniccleaning.com/.

rubidium

Agree 100% with my setups I use B&W, best German glass out there... I use with my Nikon D200 setup I had, now I am on Canon 5D and I use it as well.

[smee]

I agree 100% with Rubidium.

Rubidium, should I then buy a B+W UV filter for the 70-300mm since it will be used for outdoor daylight sports shots. Lots of situations will be with direct sun shots in field of view.

Yes definitely, especially since your shooting sports, and with all the light from the field, yes.

Agree 100% with my setups I use B&W, best German glass out there... I use with my Nikon D200 setup I had, now I am on Canon 5D and I use it as well.

Yep, my dad also has the 5D (I've got a 30D) and we share lenses/equipment, we use B+W filters on both the L lenses, and I have my little 28-135mm that I just used a Quantaray (same company as Hoya AFAIK) UV coated filter on it.
Never really noticed a difference between B+W vs Quantaray... but I do know that the glass is the best around with B+W. :up:

It's really all up to you, and how much your willing to spend.

[RedRaider]

Decisions....decisions....:hmm:

[smee]

Decisions....decisions....:hmm:

Ahahaha, yea just take your time, that is key. :up:

[RedRaider]

Ahahaha, yea just take your time, that is key. :up:

I'll be reading at night this week on UV and circular polarized filters, I won't have the camera money in my account until Thursday/Friday, so I have time to do more research...:up:

[rubidium]

- B+W and Heliopan are made from the finest glass, with surfaces ground to the highest flatness and parallelism standards, and with anti-reflection coatings. Like I said earlier, all of that becomes important at the wide angle end of the lens range. No filter will completely save you from every harsh lighting situation. That's what lens hoods are for.

- From a practical perspective, a polarizing filter in photography is useful in two types of situations: 1) Reducing/eliminating contrast reducing and otherwise disturbing specular reflections (think of reflection from water, glass, car bodies, table tops, and other surfaces acting like a mirror - even vegetation), and 2) Improving color saturation and contrast in outdoor photos with the sky as a backdrop.

Polarization is a property of light - electromagnetic waves in general - that describes the orientation of the electric field component of the wave. In nature, light is commonly produced by a large number of individual sources, producing waves independently of each other. This type of light has no consistent state of polarization and is said to be randomly polarized. However, due to the physics of scattering, light reflected by shiny materials becomes partly to fully polarized in a preferred orientation - the degree depending on the angle of scattering as measured from the direction perpendicular to the surface.

Polarizing filters have the property of totally transmitting light that is polarized in one specific direction with respect to the filter's "axis" while totally absorbing light that is polarized in a perpendicular direction, with transition between complete transmission and complete absorption for polarization angles between these two extremes. Thus, by appropriately rotating the "axis" of a polarizing filter, one can largely eliminate the reflection of ambient light from a restaurant window to better allow imaging of the interior. By appropriately rotating a polarizing filter, one can largely eliminate the reflection of ambient light from a table top to better show off the wood grain. By appropriately rotating a polarizing filter, one can largely eliminate the glare from water or wet sand that washes out so many amateur photos taken at the beach. Polarization of sunlight by scattering also occurs as light passes through the atmosphere. Due to this partial polarization of scattered light, a properly rotated polarizing filter can be used to darken the sky in photographs, increasing the contrast. This effect is most prominent at 90° angles from sun.

There are two types of polarizing filters generally available, linear polarizers and circular polarizers. Since the beam splitting mirror in most SLRs has a polarizing effect of its own, use of a simple linear polarizing filter on a lens will fuck up most metering and autofocus systems, since these systems get light through that mirror. Instead, a circular polarizer avoids this problem by combining a linear polarizer with a so-called quarter-wave plate in the filter.

To use such a filter, just rotate it within a quarter of a turn range while observing your subject through the viewfinder. The effect is quite dramatic.

rubidium

[RedRaider]

Thanks for the explanation Rubidium...:up:

[RedRaider]

I have narrowed it down to (2) brands:

Heliopan (UV/HAZE) SH-PMC 16 layer Multi-Coat

B+W (UV/HAZE) 010 or 007 MRC

Can someone explain the differences between 010 and 007???

[Silverion77]

Truthfully i dont think u can go wrong with either. Don't think that u'll be able to see the difference like night and day

Between the 007 and 010, on B&H i dont even see the 007 on the list
A better question is whats the difference between the 010 and the 415...

These are the two i found:
B+W (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/11992-REG/B_W_66070236_67mm_UV_Haze_010.html#specifications)
Heliopan (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/232471-REG/Heliopan_706711_67_mm_UV_Haze_.html#features)
And their 52mm equivalents. I'd only get the B+W cause the 67mm is $24 less. The 52s are the same

Edit: NVM i found the 007. The 007 is not a UV filter. Its a protection filter. Basically a clear piece of glass as to not affect the image and protect the lens

[RedRaider]

I read on several forums last night that both filters are made from Schott Glass (IIRC) which is Zeiss glass and both have brass anodized rings.

I also read the Heliopan has a tougher coating than B+W...

[rubidium]

I have narrowed it down to (2) brands:

Heliopan (UV/HAZE) SH-PMC 16 layer Multi-Coat

B+W (UV/HAZE) 010 or 007 MRC

Can someone explain the differences between 010 and 007???

Either will be fine.

The difference between the 010 and the 007 lies in the degree of attenuation of UV light. The 007 is just plain optical glass lacking any design attributes to strongly attenuate UV light, although it will attenuate UV to some degree by default as all glass does. The formula for the 010 is more dedicated to strongly attenuating UV. If you were a diamond grader, you might say that the 007 is like a D, while the 010 is like an E. Both will serve equally well as a lens protector. The 010 would further serve to reduce the blue cast or haze to photos taken at very high altitudes where the thin atmosphere attenuates UV less, or in regions like the poles where there are holes in the ozone layer, but you will not perceive any difference between the two otherwise.


By the way, here's the catalog: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/pdf/filter/bw_filter_programm_e.pdf.

rubidium

[Silverion77]

Yes, theyre both Schott and Brass rings (good cause they don't get stuck like my damn cheapo filter)

I think the B+W has 4 coats while the Heliopan shows having 16. Whether it really matters at that point idk...

[rubidium]

I read on several forums last night that both filters are made from Schott Glass (IIRC) which is Zeiss glass and both have brass anodized rings.

I also read the Heliopan has a tougher coating than B+W...

I have an assortment of B+W, Heliopan, and Leica filters, and would be hard pressed to rank order them in any way. All are extremely well made to exacting standards using the best materials available.

[rubidium]

Truthfully i dont think u can go wrong with either. Don't think that u'll be able to see the difference like night and day

Between the 007 and 010, on B&H i dont even see the 007 on the list
A better question is whats the difference between the 010 and the 415...

These are the two i found:
B+W (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/11992-REG/B_W_66070236_67mm_UV_Haze_010.html#specifications)
Heliopan (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/232471-REG/Heliopan_706711_67_mm_UV_Haze_.html#features)
And their 52mm equivalents. I'd only get the B+W cause the 67mm is $24 less. The 52s are the same

Edit: NVM i found the 007. The 007 is not a UV filter. Its a protection filter. Basically a clear piece of glass as to not affect the image and protect the lens


According to Schneider, 010 cuts out wavelengths below 365 nm ± 10 nm. 415 cuts out wavelengths below 415 nm, and so it's a bit 'yellower.'

[RedRaider]

So, do you think the B+W 010 or Heliopan I listed will clean up the haze we have in Houston during shots?

On clear days, the smog is visible on the horizon as more of a greenish tint. :puke1:

[The[R]eaper]

i just got the D90 w/ 18-105 vr not to long ago :D you'll love it.

wish i could get the 70-300mm vr but prolly just get the 55-200mm vr for now.

[rubidium]

So, do you think the B+W 010 or Heliopan I listed will clean up the haze we have in Houston during shots?

On clear days, the smog is visible on the horizon as more of a greenish tint. :puke1:


Well, where you're going with that thought is not unreasonable. But UV filters like you're looking at won't cure that problem, and those that will are suitable for black & white and not color photography.

The components of urban/industrial smog that are largely responsible for that visible haze are particulates having sizes that result in the preferential scattering of visible wavelengths down in the blue end of the spectrum above the UV region. In severe cases, where particulate size is even larger, even higher wavelengths - into the green - get scattered. You can reproduce this effect in a table-top experiment with a glass of water, a flashlight, and some milk. Fill a glass 3/4-full with water, and look at it in a darkened room while shining a flashlight across the glass perpendicular to your line of sight with the glass. Now add a little milk to the water, drop-by-drop, and you will gradually see the glass take on more of a bluish tint as the drops of milk diffuse into the water.

A filter can certainly block out that scattered light, but it would have to be much yellower than a UV filter. For color photography, that same filter would screw up your color balance royally. For black & white photography, the result is improved contrast of objects in smog, and of the sky and clouds. That's why a host of yellow, and even orange, filters are offered. They are strictly for black & white work.

rubidium

[RedRaider]

eaper;19251']i just got the D90 w/ 18-105 vr not to long ago :D you'll love it.

wish i could get the 70-300mm vr but prolly just get the 55-200mm vr for now.

I was looking at the 18-200mm, it would save me another lens, but I really need the 300mm for sports shots of my son, plus the 70-300mm + 18-55mm VR are less expensive than the 18-200mm...

@Rubidium...

As always, many thanks for the very descriptive explanation. I am glad you choose to become an active member of the site...;)

[Xilikon]

I was looking at the 18-200mm, it would save me another lens, but I really need the 300mm for sports shots of my son, plus the 70-300mm + 18-55mm VR are less expensive than the 18-200mm...


I also believe it's better to have a 18-55mm and 70-300mm instead of a 18-200mm. If you are doing indoor, people or normal pictures, you won't want to carry around such big lens for nothing. These 2 lens will cover you nicely in all zoom ranges and that's what I will do myself as well (I already got a 18-55mm VR and I will be buying the 70-300mm next xmas as my own gift :D).

As for the fiters, it's a very interesting thread and I'll pick one as well after digesting the wealth of infos here.

[RedRaider]

I'm buying this filter in my order...

Heliopan 67 mm UV (Haze) SH-PMC (Super Multi-Coated) Glass Filter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/232471-REG/Heliopan_706711_67_mm_UV_Haze_.html)

[Silverion77]

sounds good

Yea the 18-200 is an amazing lens from what i heard...but mad expensive. 2 lenses (18-55 and 55-200 or 70-300) is better. Obviously less convenient but ull get better pictures from lens distortion that comes with large range zooms

@Xili and RRR: If ur going to be taking other photos of landscape and such dont forget a trusty Circular Polarizer. :D

[Snyxxx]

Obviously less convenient but ull get better pictures from lens distortion that comes with large range zooms :D

This is a key point.

Most high end zooms only have a 3:1 ratio such as 17-55, 24-70,70-300, etc. The larger the zoom range, the higher chance it will be soft at one end or another. 18-200 seems very large for a range.

[RedRaider]

Now that I've bought my Heliopan UV filter, let's move on to Circular Polarizers...:D

Can someone explain the benefit of purchasing the following Heliopan Circular Polarizer??

67mm Heliopan Circular Polarizer SH-PMC $167.25

67mm Heliopan Kaeseman Circular Polarizer MRC $249.95

:shrug:

[Silverion77]

:eek: That just seems a tad ridiculous for a filter, but maybe its just me...

U should get a damn lens instead...(/looks at the new 35mm 1.8 lens)

[RedRaider]

Haven't you figured out my Mantra yet Siverion77 ???

"Roll BIG or don't fucking ROLL"...:wth:

I want to make sure I get something that can withstand salt water fishing trips..:D

<looking at 35mm f/1.8>

[Silverion77]

I already kno u roll big....

But at times it seems a little silly when u can basically get a whole new damn lens...
Filters dont really make a difference especially with digital now. On film they really helped where it was ALL about light, but now its minimal change and mostly hyped especially with things like adding reduction in the camera sensor and processing itself and photoshop to fix any problems. Only exception is reflection really, but between a $50 and a $200 filter, its a minimal change ull hardly (and even more probable never) see.
Get another RD30 or 2 Thermochills instead. Ull get more gains that ull use more in ur life ;)

[rubidium]

Now that I've bought my Heliopan UV filter, let's move on to Circular Polarizers...:D

Can someone explain the benefit of purchasing the following Heliopan Circular Polarizer??

67mm Heliopan Circular Polarizer SH-PMC $167.25

67mm Heliopan Kaeseman Circular Polarizer MRC $249.95

:shrug:


The Käsemann-type filter is a higher-end product that is claimed to be somewhat more neutral in color, and have a somewhat higher efficiency (i.e. comparatively let's more light through in a given situation) than the conventional polarizing filter. Also, it is claimed that the Käsemann design is more robust to moisture and fungus attack, due to very high humidity conditions over a prolonged period, by vitue of the sealing method uses at its edges.

I have only owned the "normal" type of circular pol filters, and to date they haven't shown any deterioration whatsoever - over the course of 25 years and having traveled throughout the world. They've also served me well in all shooting situations where I have used them. No complaints. My opinion: Just stick with the normal type, and drop the price difference on something else.

Also, compare prices on hvstar.com. They're a big, and reliable, B+W distributor.

rubidium

[RedRaider]

Thanks guys...:2up:

Rubidium, you like B+W over Heliopan I see. Why?

[Silverion77]

price :shrug:

[rubidium]

Thanks guys...:2up:

Rubidium, you like B+W over Heliopan I see. Why?

Not really. I own both, and I would say that they are absolutely equivalent in terms of quality of materials and construction. Arguably, B+W appears to be carried by more dealers, and perhaps that translates favorably into price. But then again, I havent purchased a filter in a few years ...

From my experience with both brands, I would not hesitate to choose according to prevailing price. However that works out, you are getting the best filter in the world.

[RedRaider]

They are both made of the same glass...

Only difference seems to be in # of coats on glass...:shrug:

[Shoggy]

If some of you want to know if they should get a polarization filter. Here are examples with the Hoya PRO1 Digital CIRCULAR PL.

http://ac.shoggy.de/hoya_cpl_1.jpg

http://ac.shoggy.de/hoya_cpl_2.jpg

http://ac.shoggy.de/hoya_cpl_3.jpg

I hope I don't have to mention which part of the photo was taken with the filter :D

[smee]

Wow thats amazing shoggy! I"m going to have to get me a polarized.... :D

BTW, what camera and equipment do you shoot with?

[Shoggy]

It is a Canon EOS 1000D (Rebel XS) with the kit lens EF-S 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 IS.

These photos above were only a few quick shots for testing.

[RedRaider]

I LOVE HELIOPAN.....:crack:

Thanks for taking the time to illustrate for us the difference a GOOD CP filter makews.

I'll be buying one in a few weeks..:up:

Too bad those pics were taken with a CANON...:down:

[smee]

Very nice shoggy!

Btw, reds just jealous, cuz he picked the wrong camera brand...
Theres a reason 95% of pro-sports photographers use Canon. ;)

Oh also, just soz ya'lls know, Hoya is also known as Quantaray, so if your ever shopping for filters and come acros the two, jusrt know there both the same exact thing. :)

[RedRaider]

Very nice shoggy!

Btw, reds just jealous, cuz he picked the wrong camera brand...
Theres a reason 95% of pro-sports photographers use Canon. ;)

Oh also, just soz ya'lls know, Hoya is also known as Quantaray, so if your ever shopping for filters and come acros the two, jusrt know there both the same exact thing. :)

My bad, wasn't thinking for a minute there..

I don't plan on buying the HOYA filter, it will be HELIOPAN. :up:

I bought the HELIOPAN UV MC Filter already. Top quality glass it is.

As for you Smee, if I would have wanted a POS CANON, I would have bought one.

NIKON....FTMFW

[smee]

So tell me why it's a POS Canon? ;)

[Martinm210]

I used to buy "protective" filters for my lenses, but over time started seeing how bad they are with contrast especially when shooting into the sun.

I just like buying a hood for every lens and using that for protection. That probably doesn't work for really harsh spray/mud/dirt flying types of conditions, but for general use it works for me.

[nuclear]

I haven't seen it mentionned (or either i missed it) but most Canon L series lenses (pro series) need a uv filter in front to be weather sealed
That and also for the warranties to work if you have anything coming inside the lens