Question about Aquaero 5.00

[Eternalightwith]

During the Live chat last saturday, some asked about the ETA for the Aquaero 5.00 was?

When can we expect this? Is the amperage upgraded on this version?

Sincerely,

David Piel

[Shoggy]

The 5.00 currently only exists in our mind so there are no real informations available. It is very likely that a new version will allow a higher load.

[RedRaider]

The 5.00 currently only exists in our mind so there are no real informations available. It is very likely that a new version will allow a higher load.

How about informing the designer THE CUSTOMERS WANT 25w PER CHANNEL...:D

[Kayin]

That would depend on whether the watts/channel necessitate an overly complex design, making the product economically unfeasible.

[RedRaider]

That would depend on whether the watts/channel necessitate an overly complex design, making the product economically unfeasible.

Some of us want this kayin...

Make a model worth buying and an economy model...;)

If you make another "low powered" model, then at least have your engineer tell us how to make it work with the mCubed FanAmp...:D

[Kayin]

Got nothing to do with end user cost.

It has to do with orders of complexity and how much it costs to create (or even design) an item like that, as well as the corresponding components. If that can be done, but the parts cost quadruple the old model, you've just failed in design. It's about an economically feasible part from the viewpoint of AC, not from me.

AC can sell anything, remember?

Put differently, I can design a block that will handily beat anything out there. There is no margin of error, it just bitchslaps them. However, manufacturing one takes very specialized tools, at incredible costs-say, a thousand dollars a block simply for machining. The item is still a failure. It is economically unfeasible, because to sell it for any profit is to make it so unreachable as to be nonexistent. Others MIGHT be willing to pay, they can't recoup the R&D money to even put it into production.

[Eternalightwith]

If only I hadda .... CNC mill. :coke:

Got nothing to do with end user cost.

It has to do with orders of complexity and how much it costs to create (or even design) an item like that, as well as the corresponding components. If that can be done, but the parts cost quadruple the old model, you've just failed in design. It's about an economically feasible part from the viewpoint of AC, not from me.

AC can sell anything, remember?

Put differently, I can design a block that will handily beat anything out there. There is no margin of error, it just bitchslaps them. However, manufacturing one takes very specialized tools, at incredible costs-say, a thousand dollars a block simply for machining. The item is still a failure. It is economically unfeasible, because to sell it for any profit is to make it so unreachable as to be nonexistent. Others MIGHT be willing to pay, they can't recoup the R&D money to even put it into production.

[rubidium]

Getting any digital fan controller that uses PWM (like the Aquaero) to drive more current through a load is a simple matter of adding an n-channel MOSFET having a sufficient max drain current spec to handle the load. In quantity, such a device that could handle 2-3 amps at 12V would amount to a couple of bucks per channel extra cost. Plus you'll need a resistor that'll cost two-bits. Two solutions come to mind: Either try to pressure your favorite fan controller manufacturer to support larger fan loads, or take your favorite existing fan controller and DIY.

rubidium

[Snyxxx]

Getting any digital fan controller that uses PWM (like the Aquaero)
rubidium

I saw a post from Shoggy that the Aquaero 4.0 does not use PWM, but direct vlotage. I think he mentioned the old Aquaero 3.07 and before used PWM.

[Shoggy]

I saw a post from Shoggy that the Aquaero 4.0 does not use PWM, but direct vlotage. I think he mentioned the old Aquaero 3.07 and before used PWM.
Right! :)

(3.07 was the first build which was sold.)

[RedRaider]

Shoggy, you know that I've bought direct from you an Aquaero LT and Aquaero VFD.

You know I love your products.

I'd like you to know that I'd also be really happy if you could design/sell a product similar to the FanAmp, so that I and others might be able to run groups of 3 fans on a single Aquaero channel.

:innocent:

[rubidium]

OK, so now I understand that we're dealing with an analog control vs PWM.

Still if you're a DIY'er, get something like an SI9424DY p-channel MOSFET ($0.69 in unit quantities at Digi-Key), a few other assorted parts, and a small board and you should be able to translate a 0-12V low-power input signal into a 0-12V output signal at up to 8 amperes. It would take some time to work out the details, but this shouldn't be a big deal, and one is looking at a few bucks per channel.

rubidium

[Kayin]

Damn, rubidium. You're useful.

I didn't know a damn thing about this part of it. Thanks for clearing that up...

[rubidium]

For those so inclined, this is essentially what you need to do to drive a more substantial fan complex with several to several tens of Amperes from something like an Aquaero:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/3236161901_01f8a93477_o.jpg

The resistance values will depend on the specs of the MOSFET used. The slight penalty with such a circuit is that the "on" resistance of MOSFETs capable of driving these levels of current continuously - typically 0.2 Ohms - will cause a slight reduction in the max voltage deliverable to the fan complex. For example, if your fan complex is sucking 5A, you will only be able to max out the fan voltage at 11V with a 12V supply. To avoid that would require a higher supply voltage than 12V (which is certainly doable).

These MOSFETs are generally under $2 for quantities of 1 at places like Digi-Key. The rest of the stuff combined is about twice that, depending on quantity.

knock yourselves out ;) ...
rubidium

[Big_Daddy]

The problem with running the fan amp, is it's made to use the mother board header. Which goes from 12-7v to control the fans. Whereas the Aquaero goes from 12-0. Once the Aquaero pases 7v. the fanamps shut off.



What we need is a circuit that can handle 12-0, but just increase the amperage. Preferably in a compact attractive package.

[rubidium]

:rolleyes:The problem with running the fan amp, is it's made to use the mother board header. Which goes from 12-7v to control the fans. Whereas the Aquaero goes from 12-0. Once the Aquaero pases 7v. the fanamps shut off.



What we need is a circuit that can handle 12-0, but just increase the amperage. Preferably in a compact attractive package.

The above circuit will have the output follow the input. That's why I introduced the operational amplifier (set up in open-loop gain comparator mode). If the input dips down to zero, then so does the output. There is no "floor."

Perhaps the left-hand terminal in the drawing, labeled "Aquaero input" is confusing. That terminal is the input to this fan driver circuit, which is the 0-12V output from the Aquaero. The right terminal is the high current output of the fan driver, which with properly chosen values of passive components will track the Aquaero signal in voltage. The caveat with the latter statement is that the high current output will not be able to max out at 12V unless the power supply is somewhat greater than 12V, due to the unavoidable "on" resistance of the MOSFET. The output of the circuit will track the input until the MOSFET achieves saturation, after which point the output voltage will top out at some value just under 12V (depending on the current draw) despite the input value. A seperate 15V supply, for example, would make that whole issue go away.

Edit: Actually, as I get more into this I'm finding more current MOSFETs with lower "on" resistance - say 0.065 Ohm - still cheap. So with, lets say as an example, a 5A current draw by the fan load at full power (~60 Watts!), one would only lose about 1/3 of a volt at the top end. The rest of the output range would accurately follow the voltage values of the input. Got a woodie yet? :rolleyes:

rubidium

[Eternalightwith]

You could fix that by putting a voltage gain stage in between the aquaero output and the current mirror stage. But then is the added complexity worth the small gain?

The above will have the output follow the input. That's why I introduced the operational amplifier. If the input dips down to zero, then so does the output. There is no "floor."

Perhaps the left-hand terminal in the drawing, labeled "Aquaero input" is confusing. That terminal is the input to this fan driver circuit, which is the 0-12V output from the Aquaero. The right terminal is the high current output of the fan driver, which with properly chosen values of passive components will track the Aquaero signal in voltage. The caveat with the latter statement is that the high current output will not be able to max out at 12V unless the power supply is somewhat greater than 12V, due to the unavoidable "on" resistance of the MOSFET. The output of the circuit will track the input until the MOSFET achieves saturation, after which point the output voltage will top out at some value just under 12V (depending on the current draw) despite the input value. A seperate 15V supply, for example, would make that whole issue go away.

rubidium