should i make dtek fuzion 1366 mounts to sell?

[Fitseries3]

keep in mind... they wont be $5-$10.

[nafljhy]

what would they be made of? :)

i'm sure you would be able to make them much much faster than me and cheaper than me hand making them. :o

[Fitseries3]

aluminum probably.

[Septim]

mounts for your tops... is there a way for it to be s775 ans s1366 at the same time?

base reading from current market, its still s775 thats selling though...

[Fitseries3]

adding 775 support is just another set of holes. not hard at all.

[nafljhy]

aluminum is nice too.

[RedRaider]

It better be thick, heavy duty aluminum. A mounting plate needs to be stiff and not bend. Chromed steel would be better.:)

[Xilikon]

It better be thick, heavy duty aluminum. A mounting plate needs to be stiff and not bend. Chromed steel would be better.:)

Better yet, use stainless steel (2 mm thick would be great).

[Septim]

hehe, getting more expensive by the post... but 2mm stainless should be hard enough not to bend or flex too much...

[Xilikon]

hehe, getting more expensive by the post... but 2mm stainless should be hard enough not to bend or flex too much...

True but I don't trust the aluminium structural strenght at all. to make it stiff, it need to be over 3mm, which make it unsuitable for the purpose. Some aluminium alloys is stiff but it cost as must as stainless steel so the budget-minded idea is now useless.

[Kayin]

True, but properly made stainless brackets can eliminate the need for springs, saving money there.

[Langer]

Id suggest the following, sounds absurd but costs would be low, and this method allows for easy mass production:

Use 1mm aluminum plate (I'd actually use fiberglass paneling, it's very cheap), and get a very thin (<0.5mm) sheet of spring steel, or another variety of high-carbon steel sheet.

Cut the aluminum/fiberglass and 2 copies of the high-carbon steel sheet to the same dimensions

Then you sandwich the aluminum plate (you could even epoxy it into place) between the steel plates. Engineering the part like this will make it very rigid, and you'll still get the stainless steel look w/o the costs.

With this method you are now using very very thin materials. Doing will keep costs to an incredible low, as well you'll be able to stack several (perhaps even dozens) of plates together at once - allowing rapid devlopment of many parts at once.

You could do a lot of the work with nothing but a bandsaw and drill press this way - saving hours of hassles with your mill.

What do you say to this fits?

[Kayin]

Excellent idea.

However, won't simple 1mm 440C do it by itself?

[Langer]

It may still bend...or crack, using a layered design wont bend unless under extreme forces. High carbon plate doesn't like to be put under strain... it tends to crack or even explode with even small amounts of flexing.

The more you space the two steel reinforcement plates apart the stronger the design will be... hell you could use wood between them and it'd work.

The method I described relies on the fact that metal is very difficult to compress. Which is exactly what happens when you try to bend a layered plate - you're essentially trying to compress a steel plate linearly (as well, at the same time you're also attempting to stretch the opposite plate which is equally difficult).


As an example of this design, the latest generation of f16 fighter jets are using a carbon fiber panel that has a ~1" honeycomb spacer between two 0.20mm thick carbon panels. Even though the panels are incredibly flexible on their own, the spacer in between makes for a viable structural member with a higher fail point than a steel plate.

[Kayin]

I actually wanted bend in the 1mm 440C spec. You can make it be the springs as well.

Anfi-Tec does the same deal. Best thing of theirs I've ever seen.

440C has quite a metal memory, it should be fine to bend.

[Langer]

I must be mistaken... I thought 4XXX wasn't tool steel grade? It must be more like spring steel then.

You actually can bend 440C stuff cold, if you anneal it first... which should be no difficult task for you - I'm pretty sure you have a welding torch.

It's carbon % is actually pretty low, only about 0.95%...

I was talking about using 1xxx grade steels, HIGH carbon stuff, not Molybdenum steels.

I'd still argue that a roll of Spring Steel would be perfect, it's easily purchased in thin sheets on rolls and it's incredibly strong. As an added bonus you can use it's memory to further counteract the screw tension.

[Kayin]

Yup. Xil and I talked about this in talking one night about what to change about blocks. It's one change I'm gonna try and implement.

440C is knife blade stock. Now think about your favorite GOOD steak knife.

[Xilikon]

Yes, 440C is rustproof, have excellent memory and stiff enough to be used as mounting hardware. I don't think it's too expensive and it's much efficient than the crappy sandwich (the whole thing is as robust as the glue layer).

[Langer]

Regarless of this kayin... using 440C would counteract my reasoning for a layered mount.

I suggest this design as a means of cost reduction while still improving upon existing designs.

Poor Fits wants to make some mounts, and make some cash while he's at it.

There's a very wide gap between cutting up a dozen mounts at once on a bandsaw and programming a CNC machine to mill out a solid billet piece.

My layered design would allow fits to rapidly produce parts with very little fabrication work on his end, as if that wasn't enough using thin low cost materials will help keep both his waste and his cost to an absolute minimum.

There's more to this than just materials Kayin, Fits needs a viable process upon which he can make some monies as well. I've done enough backyard DIY projects to know that it's very very difficult to get your money back let alone make profits.

===

You're very incorrect about the glue layer Xil... in fact you'll note that epoxy was an option... the glue is entirely unnecessary. Don't forget that you'll have bolts going though all 3layers, the sheer force there will be more than enough to hold the parts in place.

I've made enough brackets and mounts for industrial applications that needed to hold hundreds and in some cases tens of thousands of pounds. In every case these mounts needed to be built quickly and efficiently - and in the way that is corporate America, as cheap as possible.
More often than not myself and sometimes the engineers I worked with opted for the layered material designs because they were effective and cheap.

Edit:
Corrugated cardboard is an excellent example of this application.

[Kayin]

How is a single layer of 440C that obviates the use of springs and other expensive mounting hardware costing more? Hell, I think I could make them with a Dremel.

And the whole point is that the sandwich is unnecessarily complex, as well as being a less elegant solution and necessitating more labor and hardware to mount. Occam's razor.

[Langer]

How long will it take you to make 1?
How much will you sell 1 for?
What's your time worth?

I feel my case wont be correctly justified without diagrams and more explanation between the differences between 1-offs and rapid part production.

Unfortunately I don't have the time for either.

I made my suggestions - I stand by them, and will happily continue this at a later date, but I've got a funeral to attend and a long drive to get there.


Let me close with this:
I once made a model bridge capable of supporting my fathers weight, ~190lb, from a few sheets of bristol board and "good stuff" expanding foam (the bridge used the same layered process I explained above). The strength is not in the materials, it's in the application of the materials.

Yes my suggested process requires more initial thought, but no it doesn't require any fancy hardware, springs, or any of that. Moreover it requires a laughably small amount of physical work increasing Fit's potential revenue and decreasing his overhead.

[Kayin]

Safe travels, bro.

I used 440C on my board for chipset mounts, and it's just under 1mm for that application. Dremel with a fiberglass wheel was all it took.

I did the same concept with a paper tower that held up bricks. The class looked at me like I was a space alien.

Some of this is less about doing it fast and cheap and more about doing it RIGHT. I will pay more for right, regardless.

[Xilikon]

Langer, thanks for the explanation about the process... I know that a properly designed layered sheet will be able to whistand the weight/pressure without problems. Unfortunately, I quit college before I take the class about composite materials (I went computer engineering instead).

To find which one is more beneficial, we need to compute materials and labor costs as a whole. I do agree that if SS is cheaper to get but more complicated to work with, the layered mount might be a winner.

[Fitseries3]

i drew up a rough one outta 7075 today. its .132" and very strong. it will be drilled for 72mm(775) and 80mm(1366) hole patterns.

like i said.... rough.

http://img.techpowerup.org/090120/Picture%20428.jpg

[nafljhy]

hey fits

the promounts are flush with 1/8" material. so that .132" might be a bit too thick unless you plan on stepping it abit so that its flush?

[Fitseries3]

You could do a lot of the work with nothing but a bandsaw and drill press this way - saving hours of hassles with your mill.

What do you say to this fits?

i say the mill takes 15mins to draw something up, 2mins to get the mill setup for the run, 1min to cut the design and 2seconds to move to the next one. takes 1mins to reload the machine with 8 more stocks to make 8 more brackets.

dicking around with a drill press and band saw is a waste of efficiency.

your idea is good though.

[Cutless009]

why isnt anyone making mounting hardware for the EK Supreme :(

[Langer]

You could cut the parts out on your mill as well... 12 at a time, you'd just need good clamping to hold all the layers.

I was actually tossing up the idea of making a die from tool steel and stamping out the desired shape using a simple 8-12-ton Enerpac press... it would be near instantaneous for part production once you set-up the press. Making hole punches could be a bit tougher, so to make fabricating the die easier have it just make small indents where the holes are needed then drill them later stacked up on the drill press.

[coolmiester]

Bit off topic but i remember making a mount to turn a SS Cascade into socket 939 about 3 years ago out of 4mm aluminium and then polished it which was well strong enough considering the tension was only split between two mounting points where as 775 and i7 is split by four so the pressure is split by a further 50%.

Back on topic - 1mm stainless would be strong enough providing its designed correct and laser cutting would be the way then powder coated satin black to match the D-Tek.........i just don't understand why Danny hasn't done this already:confused:

Arrr memories:)
http://www.coolercases.co.uk/images/cascade_bracket/20.jpg

[Jah]

Sure go ahead, but I would expecting the window of opportunity to be pretty short.

Once D-tek gets there heads out of there ass and start shipping a 1366 mount you will be out of business unless you offer something seriously blingy, as I doubt you can make it cheaper.