well shit. thanks nvidia.

[Marne]

Seeing as the benchmarks for the newest cards are looking to be a big adventure in fail, I'm at a loss as to wtf to do. I'm trying to improve my gaming perfomance. My options I think are 295s or 5970s. Either way there getting full covers and cooled on there own 120x3.

[Floyd]

Id say stick with the 260 unless you really feel like you need to blow that cash.
Im sticking with my 275s for awhile!

[ND40oz]

I'd at least wait until nVidia actually releases a product and we get rid of the price flucuations, it's only a couople of weeks.

[coolmiester]

Hang fire Marne and wait till Fermi is released later this month.

Makes no sense buying 295's at this point in time as the price is about to plummet once Fermi hit the market which could be an option if the price falls low enough or wait an see how Fermi perform against the 5970's if you are wanting to lay down big bucks.

[slpdLoad]

Between 295 and 5970, 5970.

At this point, fuck it, you might as well wait for N to release their vaporware. I'd see March out at the very least.

[mcoffey]

Here's my position...there are no valid benchmarks on Nvidia's cards yet....so I'm not sure what the performance increase will be..as it sets right now, I'm counting on the new cards being better than any of the other Nvidia cards out right now, and substantially better that the dual 280's I have right now.

So it's still a green light for me on the new cards:up:

andyc

[Baleful]

The "benchmarks" that have been released thus far are a bunch of leaked, vaporware, bullshit images that don't mean a damn thing. Buying a top end video card right now would be a pretty stupid financial move. Even if Fermi doesn't live up to the hype, it's going to perform better than the last gen NV cards and the prices on them will fall. Depending on performance, ATI's prices will drop also.

Just wait it out, you're not doing any gaming that's that intensive anyways. Be patient! :bird:

[coolmiester]

My thoughts exactly Andy - nVidia aren't going to bring an inferior card out to the 295's

I got a couple of 5970's coming this week to run in crossfire and hopefully a couple of GTX480's on their release to run in Sli and both will be fitted in very similar Westmere systems so will be interesting to see how both perform side by side.

[Marne]

Well Paul I look forward to your experience with both cards. Woman is gonna shit a replica of the Titanic when she sees how much I'm gonna drop but damn that. Went this far and I don't intend on failing now.

[Silverion77]

Im confused as to y u need something better than the 260 to begin with?

We do remember that your eye is only perceptible to around 30fps. I mean yea, with more frames, actions on the computer will be easier to process, but visually there's no difference (and if so...turn off a light. Dark rooms make it easier to see slower fps)

[slpdLoad]

It's all about keeping the minimum frames per second above what the eye can perceive. 30 avg doesn't cut it.

[RedRaider]

Play with all settings maxed out on a GTX260 and get back to us:)

[mcoffey]

Im confused as to y u need something better than the 260 to begin with?

We do remember that your eye is only perceptible to around 30fps. I mean yea, with more frames, actions on the computer will be easier to process, but visually there's no difference (and if so...turn off a light. Dark rooms make it easier to see slower fps)

Yeah....and not all of us game on a 22" monitor. Try lighting a 30in monitor up running 2560x1600 with a 260, let me know how that works out for you:)

andyc

[ballz0r]

It's all about keeping the minimum frames per second above what the eye can perceive. 30 avg doesn't cut it.


I disagree... FPS is also about how smooth the game plays, I can feel the difference between 30 and 60 even if my eyes cant see it

[slpdLoad]

That's true. I should have said above what YOU can see/feel, not what your eyes technically can perceive.

[Marne]

do YOU have something better than a single GTX 260? do YOU have anything more than a pentium 3 processor at 500mhz with 32megs of ram? fuck yea you do. why? cuz you fuckin want it LOL.

same boat here boss. i think the game runs like shit with the settings maxed on my currrent card. end of story. hence upgrade :)

[ballz0r]

do YOU have something better than a single GTX 260? do YOU have anything more than a pentium 3 processor at 500mhz with 32megs of ram? fuck yea you do. why? cuz you fuckin want it LOL.

same boat here boss. i think the game runs like shit with the settings maxed on my currrent card. end of story. hence upgrade :)


Good enough for me...

I never have, and probably never will, use a GayTI

my advice, get ahold of a second hand rev A 295 (dual pcb) and overclock the balls off it.

or if your good with a set of pliers, a rev B (single pcb) 295

[Liu Kang]

I got my dual pcb 295 used w/ a heatkiller block for under $400CAD ($380USD)... pretty good value considering, plus they seem to be coming up for sale on every board I frequent.

[ablatman]

Im confused as to y u need something better than the 260 to begin with?

We do remember that your eye is only perceptible to around 30fps. I mean yea, with more frames, actions on the computer will be easier to process, but visually there's no difference (and if so...turn off a light. Dark rooms make it easier to see slower fps)

Dude, I don't know about you, but I can tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Ideally I want my FPS to be locked with my monitor's VSYNC, which is 72 Hertz for this monitor (meaning it would VSYNC at 72 FPS), and that means that a more powerful card would be nice. For reference, I'm running at 1920x1440.

Good enough for me...

I never have, and probably never will, use a GayTI

my advice, get ahold of a second hand rev A 295 (dual pcb) and overclock the balls off it.

or if your good with a set of pliers, a rev B (single pcb) 295

Good call on picking up a used 295....






From what Nvidia has said, Fermi isn't much better than AMD's 5-series until you throw in tessellation, which is where Fermi absolutely SMOKES the 5-series. We'll see how true that is when the REAL benchmarks come out at the end of the month. Personally, I'm inclined to just get a Fermi card regardless of how wide the gap is between it and the 5-series, because AMD doesn't seem to understand that we want to be able to use our GPU's for GP-GPU applications -- their platform for GP-GPU is shit, and nobody really codes for it (Well, F@H has a client for it, but they're pretty much the only ones and they have a special arrangement with ATI/AMD).

[Silverion77]

Play with all settings maxed out on a GTX260 and get back to us:)

Well seeing im still using a GX2 which is around a 260 (maybe a little more) with all my settings on max....im pretty happy with 250fps in CoD4 (pb locks u there), 300 in Source (CPU dependent anyways) and in newer games i have yet to face anything i cant run acceptably except GTA4 because of its gay memory lock (yay fail SLI and yes ive tried the memory unlocker...just made the textures crash)

[Marne]

i gotta figure out if i can even do a dual card ati setup on my mobo. X58 SLI LE

[Silverion77]

ofc u can....

Any x58 chipset allows CF or SLI setups. The only difference with some boards is they use a NF200 chip to increase PCIex16 lanes

[Crow]

The "benchmarks" that have been released thus far are a bunch of leaked, vaporware, bullshit images that don't mean a damn thing. Buying a top end video card right now would be a pretty stupid financial move. Even if Fermi doesn't live up to the hype, it's going to perform better than the last gen NV cards and the prices on them will fall. Depending on performance, ATI's prices will drop also.

Just wait it out, you're not doing any gaming that's that intensive anyways. Be patient! :bird:

For real. I can't believe people take Charlie and his BS pandering seriously. The only benches I can trust are the ones leaked of the GTX 470, which dominated the 5850.

Well seeing im still using a GX2 which is around a 260 (maybe a little more) with all my settings on max....im pretty happy with 250fps in CoD4 (pb locks u there), 300 in Source (CPU dependent anyways) and in newer games i have yet to face anything i cant run acceptably except GTA4 because of its gay memory lock (yay fail SLI and yes ive tried the memory unlocker...just made the textures crash)

Uhh, the GX2 actually rivals the GTX 280.

[Marne]

wasnt aware of that. i got the LE only because it was all black and it was 200 bucks. couldnt resist upgrading to i7 for only 600 bucks.

well 700 for me cuz i blew the extra money on my ram which in hindsight was a stupid move. i spent 300 bucks on ram thats just as fast as other 1600mhz ram....


i dont know how to OC my ram separately from the CPU

[Snyxxx]

I have not seen the main reason for staying with Nvidia...THE DRIVERS!

I have both and the driver support for Nvidia is terrific (forget the recent boo boo). I have a hard time even installing the ATI drivers and cross fire support for games is way behind a game's release date.

I dabbled with ATI with X-fire 4850s, but my 8800GTXs SLI still beats them at higher resolutions on my 24" monitors.

[Baleful]

I have not seen the main reason for staying with Nvidia...THE DRIVERS!

I have both and the driver support for Nvidia is terrific (forget the recent boo boo). I have a hard time even installing the ATI drivers and cross fire support for games is way behind a game's release date.

I dabbled with ATI with X-fire 4850s, but my 8800GTXs SLI still beats them at higher resolutions on my 24" monitors.

Same thing here. I've skipped all of NV's cards after G80, my 8800's are still doing OK. I did, however, jump onto the ATI wagon for a little while to see what the red side was all about. Honestly, ATI cards are OK, I really like them for HTPC setups because they tend to offer a little more flexibility over NV but for gaming you just can't beat NV.

The cards I have:

NV - 8800GTX's and still fucking love them

ATI - 4850's, 4870's, 5770

Like Snyxx said, driver and X-fire support from ATI leaves you wanting much more.

[Floyd]

Lol my last ATI card was a X1900XTX!
Too bad the drivers were such a PITA that I dropped my AMD/ATI rig and went Intel/Nvidia.

[Kuro]

I have a X1300 someware

[ballz0r]

Actually Aeok, y not just add another 260 in SLI


this should hold you over till fermi and save you a few bucks

youll get the same out of sli 260s as you would a 295

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/01/08/nvidia-geforce-gtx-295-quad-sli-review/6

[Floyd]

I concur with adding another 260 and calling it a day.

[slpdLoad]

Get three of these for the same price as a single 5970

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-896-P3-1257-AR-Superclocked-PCI-Express-Graphics/dp/B001NXDQD6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268323505&sr=8-1

[ablatman]

i dont know how to OC my ram separately from the CPU

There are two things to consider when overclocking RAM on a 1366 CPU -- the base clock (default 133 MHz) and the memory multiplier.

XMP profiles work by just setting a higher RAM multiplier, which can set the RAM to several speed levels without messing with the base clock.

Changing the base clock changes the RAM clocks based on the RAM multiplier.


Standard setting for a 920 is ~1066MHz RAM, achieved by 2:8 memory multiplier with 133MHz base clock. To get 1600 MHz RAM speed you can up the base clock to 200 MHz (4.2GHz CPU frequency with turbo) while leaving the stock 2:8 memory multiplier, or you can up the base clock to 160 (3.36 GHz CPU frequency with turbo) and the memory multiplier to 2:10, or you can leave the CPU stock at 133MHz (2.8 GHz with turbo) and use the 2:12 memory multiplier.

Essentially, to calculate your final RAM speed, multiply your base clock by the second half of the memory multiplier. To calculate your final CPU frequency, multiply your base clock by your CPU multiplier (Locked to max of 21 w/Turbo on a 920).

[Marne]

i want to watercool these cards. its an absolute fucking NIGHTMARE trying to find blocks that fit a fucking 260. myself and Gary were about to go fucking batshit trying to find one that fits. thats why Gary no longer stocks any kind of block for a gtx 260. FAILURE with the 88 revisions to the damn thing.

I had a 65nm 260 originlly with a MCW60 (crow has it now). the card didnt like CrazyJoe's HK block and fucking died on me. than my cats took it out of its misery and knocked it off the table. snapped that fucker clean in half. sent Joe his block back and havnt thought about getting another 260 ever since.


i want something NEW and shiny :D i see rigs like the one ballzor has in his avatar and am blown away at how cool 3 cards with blocks look :) i wanna do something similar but of course in a reverse tj07 with its own loop :P


I wanna be able to max out every possible setting and run it perfect at 1920x1080. i go by 1900x1200 benchmarks cuz its pretty close to what i run. My current 260 is either going in my brothers rig or somehow wedged into the new build as a physx card.





@Jew Homie :D
So from the looks of it i cant have my cake and it it too. lets say i want my ram to go to 1800mhz. i cant have it at 1800 and also OC my cpu to higher than 4.2? all i did to get my current oc was put the bclk to 210 (i think) and up the voltage till it booted stable. ran some OCCT for an hour and called it a day. been crunching ever since like that. ram is at its stock settings.

[Floyd]

I wanna be able to max out every possible setting and run it perfect at 1920x1080.
Thats the same resolution that I use and I can play any game I own maxxed out with no issues on 2 275s.

[Marne]

>_> lol okay. i plan on getting a 30 inch soon. 2560x whatever res. its gonna be great

[Baleful]

>_> lol okay. i plan on getting a 30 inch soon. 2560x whatever res. its gonna be great

Then you're gonna need a big boy card. Ask Andy, he's the only person I know for sure that uses a 30" LCD to game on. (I'm sure there are others on the forum that game on a 30, but he's the only one that comes to mind)

[mcoffey]

>_> lol okay. i plan on getting a 30 inch soon. 2560x whatever res. its gonna be great

Then you bess be throwing as much GPU as possible to get good frame rates on high settings. Some games are easier than others, but you want as much GPU power as possible.

Telling yeah man, when done right, gaming at 2560x1600 is a whole other world. I don't know how many times I've jumped out of my seat and had the hairs raise up on the back of my neck. But everything has to be smooth to realize that effect:up:

Just a thing of note, the new GTX 480 really starts to separate itself from the rest at the 2560x1600 res mark. Or so the story goes.

andyc

[Marne]

its gonna be hard going from a 42" screen to a 30 but for the resolution...yea ill do it. oh i know im gonna need bug boy cards lol. hence the whole argument :) im getting 2 maybe 3 of the top dog cards to run in sli. depending on how much it hurts me off the bat they will be on air until i can afford waterblocks ^_^ or i might just get 2 and waterblocks instead of 3 lol

[Floyd]

Take it from me. If you are getting full cover blocks get the GPUs and blocks at the same time.
Damn gaming on a 42"! Id hate to see how close you are to that while gaming. Id rather scan with my eyes and not my head.

[Marne]

lol its not that hard ^_^ its been awesome so far. i originally had no idea if it would work. i didnt have a monitor and i was like. hmm this card came with adapters for hdmi.....HOLY SHIT lol


never looked back :) i might just say fuck the 30 inch and use the money for the gpus

[craigbru]

I game on 37" and it would be hard for me to go to anything smaller regardless of resolution. Sure, I'm losing a little detail, but as long as I can crank up the AA and things keep fluid, you don't even notice...

[slpdLoad]

its gonna be hard going from a 42" screen to a 30

Just sit closer :D

[Marne]

if i could max out aa and af on my 42 1920x1080 and STILL get bad ass FPS id shit a fucking chicken

[slpdLoad]

That's not a particularly high order. My pair of 4870s (about on par with 260s) easily handle everything at 1920x1200, so even just another 260 would get you there.

But, even with maxxed AA/AF, you still have to deal with how far away the pixels are and how big the pixels are on a 42".

HDTVs are cool if you want to chill on the couch with a console, but get a good 27"+ running at 2560x1600 and trust me, you will be blown away.

[Marne]

what about a projector instead...HD 2560x1600 goodness....

[Floyd]

I cant stand projectors.
23" is plenty big for fraggin.

[Silverion77]

HDTVs are cool if you want to chill on the couch with a console, but get a good 27"+ running at 2560x1600 and trust me, you will be blown away.

Concur, and if your going for a nice high end monitor, I would look to find a nice IPS or PVA panel, stay away from the TNs. I kno Dell has released a few really nice monitors recently ;)

[Marne]

any recommendations seeing as i know nothing about monitor tech?

[Silverion77]

Well i have my databases on my other computer, but i can give a simple run down. All 30"s generally have an IPS panel and use LG as their OEM. Only exception is Samsung which uses their own PVA panel in the 305T.

In smaller monitors, it all depends. An easy way to tell its PVA/IPS is that 1) they market it or 2) it runs for more $$$ compared to the shitty $300ish Acer/Asus/Hanns. G etc. This (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-8277) <--Dell 24" is pretty excellent fwir. There should also be some nice 27" ones as well, but the price is such a jump on them that u might as well go with the 30" and double your resolution. Once i get upstairs i can definitely link to others.

[ablatman]

@Jew Homie :D
So from the looks of it i cant have my cake and it it too. lets say i want my ram to go to 1800mhz. i cant have it at 1800 and also OC my cpu to higher than 4.2? all i did to get my current oc was put the bclk to 210 (i think) and up the voltage till it booted stable. ran some OCCT for an hour and called it a day. been crunching ever since like that. ram is at its stock settings.

Well if your bclock is at 210, and you're using the 2:8 RAM divider, then your RAM is at around 1680 MHz, which is approximately what it should be rated for (if you've got what I think you do). If you want to clock your RAM higher, your only real realistic option is to raise the lower the bclock to the 160-180 range and run your RAM at the 2:10 multi. Honestly though, you'll get much higher performance from your CPU at 210 bclock with your RAM around 1600MHz than you will with your CPU at ~180 bclock with your RAM at 2:10 @~1800MHz.

As for gfx cards, I'm currently giving serious thought to getting a GTX 480 or two 470's right around launch, and block + other gear as soon as they're available.... Right now I'm waiting on Gary to get IandH reservoirs back in stock....

[Silverion77]

Well if your bclock is at 210, and you're using the 2:8 RAM divider, then your RAM is at around 1680 MHz, which is approximately what it should be rated for (if you've got what I think you do). If you want to clock your RAM higher, your only real realistic option is to raise the lower the bclock to the 160-180 range and run your RAM at the 2:10 multi. Honestly though, you'll get much higher performance from your CPU at 210 bclock with your RAM around 1600MHz than you will with your CPU at ~180 bclock with your RAM at 2:10 @~1800MHz.
I'm not a personal expert on DDR3, but doesn't it respond similar to DDR2 where lower speed with tighter timings is just as good as high speed with loose timings? (and at times the tighter timings are better?)

[ablatman]

I'm not a personal expert on DDR3, but doesn't it respond similar to DDR2 where lower speed with tighter timings is just as good as high speed with loose timings? (and at times the tighter timings are better?)

From what I had heard, which was better with DDR2 depended on what chipset you were using, with Nvidia chipsets being better suited to high-speed, high-latency, and Intel chipsets being better suited to low speed, low latency.

[Overclocking101]

well ATI cards are not going down very much like 50 maximum. so dont wait if you think thats going to happen. but fermi cards are being benched right now on VERY immature drivers ones made simply to be compatible nothing more so benches now mean little to nothing imo

[mpolter]

I game on both a 30" lcd and a projector. I have a GTX 295 on my 30" HP LP3065 and I haven't had the need to add a second. There is always want though.

I have not seen a projector with 2560x1600 resolution - I'm not saying there isn't one but that it is most likely out of my price range. My Mitsubishi HC4900 is 1080p or 1920x1080 and I drive that with a GTX 260. I game ok with that as well. Nothing like playing Warhammer or BFBC2 on a 100" screen. :)

I am holding off on purchasing new cards until Fermi has properly been reviewed. If they are decent, there might be some nice cheap gtx 295s on the market.

--MikeP