starting out

[ShadowHunter]

Right so my Physics teacher (this man is insane :crack:) approached a couple friends and myself about a possible RC racing project.

yes, i read the RC for noobs thread. but anyone that has experience, would i be better starting off with an E-Revo (am i incorrect in believing it can be upgraded to brushless?) or one of the cars on hpi's onroad site (http://www.hpiracing.com/hpikits/e-on/)?

again, i'm a total noob, but i'll probably buy a kit as opposed to RTR if i have the option, and i definitely want upgradability. and some 1stgen paint love down the road :up:

if it wasn't clear, this needs to be track legal. that's why i'm unsure about the e-re. it seems as though my teacher was just tossing around the idea, but me and a friend are totally into it (probably gonna form our own team). so i'd like something that will be allowed at almost all the races i'll ever face.

seriously considering:
#100422 - RTR SPRINT 2 FLUX WITH PREPAINTED MUSTANG BODY
(http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/100422/) (the red fastback)

#709 RTR SPRINT 2 SPORT 2006 HPI IMPREZA (200mm) (http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/708/) (couldnt have an STi for real, so... ;))


ill head out to the nearest hobby shop within the next week, and hopefully test drive an e-revo and maybe erbe, and probably others :up:

(i will update this inital post as i consider more/different cars)

[1stGenCRXer]

Right so my Physics teacher (this man is insane :crack:) approached a couple friends and myself about a possible RC racing project.

yes, i read the RC for noobs thread. but anyone that has experience, would i be better starting off with an E-Revo (am i incorrect in believing it can be upgraded to brushless?) or one of the cars on hpi's onroad site (http://www.hpiracing.com/hpikits/e-on/)?

again, i'm a total noob, but i'll probably buy a kit as opposed to RTR if i have the option, and i definitely want upgradability. and some 1stgen paint love down the road :up:

if it wasn't clear, this needs to be track legal. that's why i'm unsure about the e-re. it seems as though my teacher was just tossing around the idea, but me and a friend are totally into it (probably gonna form our own team). so i'd like something that will be allowed at almost all the races i'll ever face.

seriously considering:
#100422 - RTR SPRINT 2 FLUX WITH PREPAINTED MUSTANG BODY
(http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/100422/) (the red fastback)

#709 RTR SPRINT 2 SPORT 2006 HPI IMPREZA (200mm) (http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/708/) (couldnt have an STi for real, so... ;))


ill head out to the nearest hobby shop within the next week, and hopefully test drive an e-revo and maybe erbe, and probably others :up:

(i will update this inital post as i consider more/different cars)

Alright, track legal is no problem.

The problem is, what type of track will you be racing on? Any idea what class? If you give me an area you live, I can help find tracks and classes near you to narrow down your search.

Second problem, what is the budget?

Finding a kit is no problem.

Arranging for a paint job from yours truly also shouldn't be a problem ;)

[ShadowHunter]

Alright, track legal is no problem.

The problem is, what type of track will you be racing on? Any idea what class? If you give me an area you live, I can help find tracks and classes near you to narrow down your search.

Second problem, what is the budget?

Finding a kit is no problem.

Arranging for a paint job from yours truly also shouldn't be a problem ;)

i live in the Ft. Lauderdale FL area. i dont know what classes, etc, but i'm not quite sure what you mean by types of track. unless you mean indoor vs parking lot vs serious track?

budget, i have ~$300 on hand, and hope to get a job soon so that will probably expand.

it doesn't have to be a kit, but it is preferred. must be tinker-able :D

paint, anything you do will be TITS i'm sure! ;)

[1stGenCRXer]

Yeah, I mean is the track you're going to run at indoor asphalt or carpet?, Outdoor parking lot, Outdoor permanent track, outdoor offroad, indoor offroad?

Do you know the names of, or have you visited, any hobby shops in your area? They'd be able to point you in the direction of some tracks as well.

You seem pretty keen on racing on-road, but the first track I've come across is offroad:

http://www.bcrcs.org/

They claim to run a stock Slash class [cheap to get started], which would fit your budget, and there's several manufacturers making trucks for that class, including the original Traxxas Slash.

For onroad racing, you're looking at quite a bit more than $300 to get started, and it's a much more challenging route starting out.

Even the RTR vehicles are fully upgradable/moddable/tinkerable, so don't worry about that one ;)

Go visit some hobby shops, take a look at some vehicles, find out about local tracks, and get back to me. On your first visits to the hobby shops, leave your money/wallet in the car, trust me, you won't want to wait, but it'll be best that you did :crack:

[ShadowHunter]

I specifically asked my teacher if we were doing onroad or offroad racing, and he said onroad. So I'm pretty sure we'll be doing indoor asphalt, outdoor parking lot and outdoor permanent.

I haven't been to a hobby shop in years (I was into HO scale model trains. Märklin is the shit :crack:) but I'm going to visit a couple tomorrow with my friend.

I know onroad is more difficult. But tbh, I like challenges. Hell, I was disappointed when he said they had to be electric! Plus I tend to baby things that go fast, at least until I'm comfortable.

What class would an e-revo be? Or is it a strictly offroad racer? And can you please give examples of the onroad classes? Like cars I'm sure to come across if I enter that class!

[1stGenCRXer]

Alright, onroad it is. The E-Revo is offroad, you can bash onroad with it, but it was intended to roost the dirt.

Onroad electric gives you 3 main classes for competition: Touring, 1/12th scale pan, and 1/10th scale pan.

For competition level, I would stay away from RTR cars, mainly because it will cost you as much as piecing together what you need to get race legal gear. Most RTR's advertise a top speed and have some ridiculous motors in them to reach those speeds, which aren't competition legal anyway.

Starting out, with competition in mind, I would start with a 2.4GHz radio, like the Spektrum DX3s, an Associated TC5r kit [rubber tire], a Tekin RS speed control 17.5 brushless combo, a decent digital servo [have to look around to give you a specific recommendation, but you're looking for something digital, with at least 80oz/in of torque and a fast transit speed] and an A-Main Hobbies 7.4v 2s 5000mAh 35C lipo battery, along with any lipo charger capable of at least 5 amps ouput, such as the Venom Pro Charger. This setup would put you in the ROAR sportsman stock class, which is pretty universal here in the US, and would eliminate the need to upgrade in the immediate, foreseeable future.

If your teacher has a specific place he wants you to race, I would check out the hobby shops nearby to the track and see what brands they stock parts for. An AE TC5r should be pretty well supported in your area, but if not, you'll really want to go with a different brand. Nothing sucks more than breaking at a race and being done for the day because you don't have the part you need, and neither does the local hobby shop.

Tires are the biggest wear item [obviously], and I would recommend talking with guys you'll be racing with to see what the popular or spec tire(s) is/are, and if there is more than one choice, figure out which brands are carried local for ease of purchase.

But the above setup is a belt drive Touring car that can be run indoors or out, and should put you in a situation to get some relevant help with setup from local faster guys, and again, prevent you from needing to upgrade anytime soon. There are cheaper ways to go, but the above setup is my recommendation, and buying used is an acceptable way to cut cost if it helps you stick to the list.

If you need some more specific help, or want to ask questions while you're looking around the hobby shops, shoot me a PM with a cell number, and I'll give you a call.

[ShadowHunter]

Dude you are the man! I've been researching some and was gonna come back and say that I wanted to go with a touring car. Great minds think alike.

But if the tc5r isn't supported, what else would you suggest?

[1stGenCRXer]

I would suggest that if the TC5r isn't supported, in Florida... in the US... you call the hobby shop owners communists and find another hobby shop :rofl:

Seriously, it would surprise me to no end if they didn't stock parts for that car. If you must go with another brand, I would look at the HPI Cyclone [the 'S' is a base model, the 'TC' is the kind daddy], Corrally RDX Phi [high end car comparable to the TC5r, but usually more expensive], or the XRay T3 [seriously, if this makes it on your list as a first car purchase, you've got enough money that I'm going to hunt you down and swap your gear out for my aging stuff when you're not looking :p , this is a VERY high end car].

Almost forgot, for TC racing, look at the Proline/Protoform LTC-R bodyshell.

On the off chance that the "popular" TC series down there is Vintage Touring [or VTA for short], let me know as you'll need a different motor than the 17.5, and a more "realistic" body. VTA is about scale racing speeds [read: slower], and closer competition. A lot of fun, but not so easy to take your car, as is, anywhere you want without needing more motors and such.

[ShadowHunter]

I would suggest that if the TC5r isn't supported, in Florida... in the US... you call the hobby shop owners communists and find another hobby shop :rofl:

lol well there's a proliferation down here, so i doubt that will be a problem. sheesh a-main has it for ~$360??

i think i'll go with the OFNA JL10e, since ive heard glowing reviews of it and the price is pretty darn good. plus the whole belt thing doesn't sit right with me. i remember several battlebots episodes where a belt will snap on a bot's saw, then they were SOL and lost the fight. i'm sure that the belts used in rc can take the abuse, but its a comfort thing.

any racing i do will be casual. i'll probably do parking lot and bashing more than serious competition, but i want to be able to hold my own.

edit: the shop nearest my house has the tc5r, ($10 less than a-main) but not the jl10e... the hunt continues!

[1stGenCRXer]

That's a new price, you can get a used chassis in good shape, sometimes with some decent electronics and extra spares for the $150-200 range, just have to ask and look ;)

The JL10e is an alright chassis, but pretty much guarantee you'll have a problem with getting spare parts, simply because you don't live in Cali.

I've run my electric TC indoors and out for 2 years now, same belts ;)

I strongly suggest a belt drive car because they're honestly easier to work on and adjust in the electric TC classes than a shaft drive car. Shaft drive cars are more robust [usually] when it comes to high power motor setups, but for competition stock class, belt drive is the way to go.

And you might start out with "casual racing", but if you find a decent club and/or a good indoor carpet track, you'll discover the :crack: of competition. :up:

I'm going to send you a PM with my phone number if you have any other questions/concerns.

[ShadowHunter]

I'm going to send you a PM with my phone number if you have any other questions/concerns.

lol so in other words, stfu?

i kid :p

yeah ill definitely look around fot a used tc5r. if i cant find one, a place by me has a cyclone S for ~$170 :up:

i dont really like the idea of using used stuff, because you never know what abuse its been through. but i guess i better start getting used to it

[1stGenCRXer]

Yeah, STFU noob :bird: :rofl:

As a general rule for myself, if you find a used car being sold by someone still racing at a local club, chances are good that it's been fairly well taken care of. Plus you have the benefit of being able to ask someone familiar with YOUR car.

Craigslist or EvilBay are another story and no telling what you might get, but again, belt drive cars are pretty straightforward to fix issues on.

The Cyclone S is a decent car, but again, you're going to want to make sure parts support is present local, otherwise get used to making large internet parts orders to make sure you stay running. [Been there, still doing that with my nitro TC]

There's a lot of other stuff I could tell you to get when starting out in TC, but chances are you'll find somebody that can help you out local as far as getting your car on a setup station to get a decent starting setup on the car.

I won't scare you off by putting a dollar amount to all the shit I have JUST for TC racing :crack:, OR the total amount of stuff I currently have/race :crack: :crack: :rofl:

[ShadowHunter]

I won't scare you off by putting a dollar amount to all the shit I have JUST for TC racing :crack:, OR the total amount of stuff I currently have/race :crack: :crack: :rofl:

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/maasx003/Vikings/images/drevil.jpg

:ROTF:

[1stGenCRXer]

Well, for example purposes, here's some sample pictures.

My current electric TC, older XRay T1FK'05:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/XRay/100_2827a.JPG
Mine and my Wife's Revos:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/HisAndHersRevo/100_3071.jpg
Ofna CD3 Nitro TC:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/100_2455.jpg
Sample picture of the rest of the "family": Top row L-R Sportwerks Recoil, Ofna CD-3, RJ Speed [formerly BoLink] Legends, bottom row [L] Sportwerks Mayhem, Traxxas Revo 3.3
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/100_2480.jpg
Old radio [L] Spektrum DX3 next to my new baby [R] Spektrum DX3r:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/100_2464.jpg
And the only car I currently have on shelf duty, my vintage Kyosho Kart 10:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/100_0454.jpg
And next to my full-sized one:
http://www.lazermotorsports.com/Photos/RadioCPics/100_0461.jpg

[ShadowHunter]

dude i love the kart pair. and that nitro looks badass. what bodies do you have for the xray? or is there too many to post? :hide:

[1stGenCRXer]

dude i love the kart pair. and that nitro looks badass. what bodies do you have for the xray? or is there too many to post? :hide:

No, not too many to post, but I forgot to grab the last pictures I took off my SD card before I went out of state for work again :cussing:

[ShadowHunter]

well, it seems you hit the nail on the head reccommending the tc5r and cyclone S.

i found a thread about a local track on rctech.net stating
For electric: Hot Bodies Cyclone, Associated TC5R, Schumacher MI3, Serpent S400 are very popular here in Florida, and well supported, and are run at our track as well, for your convenience and support.

conclusion: ill try to find a used tc5r for a decent price. if i can't find one i'm comfortable with at a price less than a Cyclone S, i'll go with the cyclone :up:

[1stGenCRXer]

I'm definitely not new to this ;)

I'd stay away from Schumacher and Serpent personally, because even though they may be popular in Florida, on a whole they're really not that well supported here in the US.

On top of that, Schumacher US is being dissolved, so while there might still be some US distributors, all parts support will be coming direct from the UK now, which hasn't been that great in recent history.

HPI [Hot Bodies is an HPI brand] and Associated are heavily supported and/or US based.

What track is it near you? I'd like to check out some track pics if possible.

[ShadowHunter]

Coral Springs raceway i think... closed the thread. lemme go pull up yellowbook and ill get websites.


edit: found thread here (http://www.rctech.net/forum/florida-racing/205691-coral-springs-road-track.html)

website here (http://www.csrccc.com/). check the forums. cant seem to find pics of the on-road course... :comp1:

[1stGenCRXer]

Seems like they have an onroad and offroad course next to each other, but primarily race offroad...

Very nice looking offroad track though.

Onroad track is also nice, but you might want to check in with those folks and see how much racing they see.

[1stGenCRXer]

http://www.rctech.net/forum/florida-racing/205691-coral-springs-road-track-66.html

Seems like some inter-club turmoil... Nice track, it's a shame they don't have weekly racing though.

Have you come across any carpet tracks in your area?

[ShadowHunter]

yeah it seems like onroad has trouble with attracting people. offroad boys practice Wed and race Sat, and iirc, onroad practice is Sun and race Sat :shrug:

i'll make a call once i get my gear. till i get it sorted out, bash seshs and parking lot races ahoy! :up:

[1stGenCRXer]

Guarantee if you can find a carpet track close to you, they'll have a consistent turnout and more practice time available.

[ShadowHunter]

ill keep that in mind :up:

[KaptCrunch]

crx any engine restrictions on your full size racing 2cycle go-kart?

[1stGenCRXer]

I race in the 100cc Yamaha class.

Only restriction on the pipe is that both cones must be fixed, otherwise we can run any pipe.

[KaptCrunch]

ok so the cly head is open field to anything.
you do any dyno testing?

with engine can squeaze more out by shaving cly base and opening charge ports an polish exhuast port,

[1stGenCRXer]

Trust me Kapt, we know what we're doing ;)

Dyno tested @ 18 BHP, 10.5 lbs/ft of torque :up:

[ShadowHunter]

oh btw 1stgen, i want to get into RCGT (i know its pretty much only big in SoCal, but i hope to be there in 5 years for grad school @ Stanford ;))

went to 12 hrs of Sebring a couple years ago. nothing beats LeMans :crack:

oh and once i get more into rc (maybe late this year), i may pick up a HPI Switch. FWD is intriguing.

[1stGenCRXer]

FWD sucks. Unless there's 12-14 on the track at a time, it's junk. RWD or AWD is the best way to race.

For RCGT, body shell is more personal preference, but it is a regional class, so you need to check the rules for wherever you might race to see what they're running. Bodies do look cool for the class though :up:

You can still run a TC5r or Cyclone there too, and switch bodies to run a "stock" class.

As for planning for 5 years out, only way to do that is to pay attention to trends and get set up for what you want to race when it starts gaining popularity.

1/12th scale pan cars are blowing up in popularity world-wide again, but that's pretty much a carpet or very smooth asphalt track class, you won't be doing any parking lot action with one unless you like buying replacement $90 chassis plates :crack:

[ShadowHunter]

haha thanks but no thanks.

are TC and RCGT essentially the same except RCGT has to use viable LeMans style bodies and paint and details? or did i miss something?

oh and since the tc5r and cyclone are 190mm cars, i have to use a 13.5 motor if i wanna do serious competition, right?

[1stGenCRXer]

Yeah, TC and RCGT are the same running gear except for the body/paint rules.

National level sportsman stock class [what you would be classified as unless you're a natural talent freak], is 17.5.

Some clubs do run 13.5, but the Tekin RS with the current software is making the 17.5 run faster than the 13.5's ran a little over a year ago, so a lot of clubs are running 17.5 and skipping 13.5 all together and may run anything 10.5 and faster in a mod class.

Generally, the lower the turn number, the higher the amp draw, which produces more torque and higher RPM. Higher turn motors naturally make more torque but are slower, turn less RPM, easier to drive, and usually create more focus on chassis setup at the club level.

Any electric TC that is competition legal will be classified as a 190mm car, which refers to the maximum track width allowed to the outer edge of the tires.

[ShadowHunter]

yup just saw RCGT requires 17.5 brushless or 27 brushed.

[1stGenCRXer]

Even if you're penny pinching, there's no reason in the world to consider running brushed motors anymore. If you can't afford brushless, just keep saving until you can ;)

When brushless first came out, a good 27t motor was faster than the 17.5's. With the current ESC software driving the 17.5's, it's a lopsided joke in speed, favor to the 17.5's.

[ShadowHunter]

1stgen, i think i found the onroad site for the Coral Springs track i'll be racing at. seems drifting and RCGT are a big deal :woot:

link (http://sfspeedway.com/default.aspx)

i'll definitely send a couple bodies your way soon ;)

edit: in the photo gallery, there's a pic of a car (ae86 i think) with a clear hood and mocked-up engine. that thing is lookin FIIIIINE!

[1stGenCRXer]

Yeah, that's the same track we looked at yesterday, but following the rctech threads, doesn't seem the track is as active as it was a couple years ago. A shame really, looks like a really nice track.

[1stGenCRXer]

Get out to any hobby shops or tracks to talk with some folks this weekend?

[ShadowHunter]

nah man. we just finished a plywood and bike wheel chariot (with a beach chair on it for comfort :obama:) today. tomorrows the races (we get to attack with nerf swords and nerf guns :up:). ill probably get out friday since i just have no time during the week. saturday is SAT, and Sunday might be feasible. im probably gonna go for the Cyclone S though. see if i can get anything used. i really just need a working car asap so i can go out to the track and practice, hit up local parking lot events, and get a body to send you.

[1stGenCRXer]

Check out the FS forum on RC Tech, probably a good chance of finding someone selling a decent car that doesn't need much local to you. Your area [in general] is known to be pretty active in the RC scene :up:

That said, I wouldn't buy anything sight unseen. Chances are if your noob eyes can see something doesn't look right, or the car is VERY scratched up, you'll want to pass. When you roll the car, there shouldn't be any clicking, squeaking or chattering. Grabbing the left and right tires for the front and rear and twisting them in the opposite directions is to check the differentials, again, should be smooth without any sound, unless they have a spool installed, in which case they won't twist in opposite directions, and they should be able to tell you if one is installed or not before you try. Belts should either be in good shape, or a new set included.

Tires in bad shape aren't a deal breaker, remember, they're consumable items anyway, especially in an on-road car.

Shouldn't be any rust, missing screws or broken screws...

If I can think of other things to check on a used vehicle, I'll let you know.

[ShadowHunter]

thanks man! :worship:

[1stGenCRXer]

Oh yeah, anything that looks like a linkage or pivot point should move freely, but not sloppy. If you you can see play being tested on ball cups when you move something on the car, it means it's got a lot of play time under it's belt, and probably about due for a freshen up. This isn't a deal breaker, but it is a negotiating point, especially as a noob ;)

That said, any turnbuckles [the metal bits that thread between the ball cups], that are bent, are a MAJOR ISSUE. Do some research and Jew that seller down for at LEAST the cost of replacements [usually sold in pairs, don't go for "half" the replacement price off because of that].

Anywhere that the suspension pivots on a solid pin, likewise should move freely, but only the the direction you can see by design it's SUPPOSED to move in. Example, if a suspension arm moves up and down freely, you're good, but if it moves front to rear more than .5mm, that's excessive. Yes, onroad cars are this precise. You may not get the seller to drop his price on an issue like this, but if he seems to be in a hurry to sell, you can use this as a "no deal" negotiating or "I'm going to keep looking at my options ploy".

Axles/CVDs [Constant Velocity Driveshafts]- also should be no visible damage or bends when rolling the drivetrain. Certain model car's CVDs can be pricey. Cheaper "dog bones" aren't as good, but some cheaper cars come with them standard. If the drive axle slides between the wheel hub and differential a fair bit with the cross pins in grooves at the wheel hub and differential, it's a dogbone car. Most can be upgraded to CVDs later for a more precise drivetrain.

On the subject of drivetrain, check the slots in the differential outdrives [where the CVDs or dogbones key into with their cross pins], these should be straight with no noticeable wear. Outdrives on differentials *can* be VERY EXPENSIVE to replace, and should also be a negotiating point.

Now, I didn't go through all this because I'm a cheap bastard.

I went through all this because it's a fact of life that used cars are worth WAY less than the same car new in the box, unless it has extensive upgrades, included electronics, and a kick-ass setup that won the local points championships the past 90 years and will also cook you breakfast in the morning. In this case, it would be worth the SAME as a brand new, base model car new in the box.

Everybody thinks their stuff is prime condition and limited edition.

:bird: Bullshit.

Finally, don't buy the first used car you see in person right away. Take some notes, look up the internet order value of the "added bonuses" the seller is offering, and always, always check parts support for that car where you intend to run it. Just because it's a brand we've talked about here doesn't mean your hobby shop carries parts. In fact, lack of support may possibly be the reason for the sale.

Ok, I've rambled enough for now.

[ShadowHunter]

well its been a while, 1stgen.

here is the official link to the project page.

http://www.fasttrackrc.com/

there's an order form for stuff but i don't see specifics :shrug:

lack of specs and the fact that its a school oriented thing probably means that it wont be as much fun as i'd hoped. almost $2k for a starter kit!

...way to rain on my parade :(

[1stGenCRXer]

That starter kit is for 2 cars, as well as batteries and chargers for each car. Not a bad price for everything you need out of the gate. Toss in the student edition of SolidWorks, and the prices are pretty low actually.

I would be interested to know what kind of car it is though.

Looking at the pictures at the top of this page (http://www.fasttrackrc.com/STEM.html) the base cars look like an older HPI design, which isn't a totally bad thing.

Seems like this program is intended to get students to modify a car for the best performance through engineering and testing, rather than just buying a good car and bolting on the go-fast ;)

I'd be more interested in the race rules myself, you can get better and cheaper tires than what they're selling through the program, lol.

Are you a senior? This program also seems to be geared more toward a school program, and it would be a little late in the school year to get into this unless it's going to be carried over to next school year.

[ShadowHunter]

nah, i'm a junior. class of 11 baby! speaking of which, my school's 50th birthday falls next year. im hoping things will be crazy-go-nuts!

thought that chassis looked familiar. 99% sure its a Sprint 2.

didnt see it was for 2 cars. it pays to read sometimes.

edit: hah you see the body in the pic on the right? minivan ftmfw!

[1stGenCRXer]

Damn... class of '11... I graduated HS 10 years ago, and college 5 years ago [double major with a concentration]...

Ah ok, so this is probably something your teacher is trying to get set up for for next year.

Looks like whoever is going to be doing this little venture with you through the school needs to be doing car washes with you this summer ;)

If you get a hold of more detailed rules, send 'em my way. Nothing replaces driving ability, but I've been racing for over 20 years now, so I know how to push the "spirit and intent" of the rules until they become black-and-white rules ;)