So Phenom II Is Out...

[Cutless009]

Anyone playing with one yet? I have to build a new computer, this is definitely going in it, especially if the clocks they claim are possible on air are actually possible. Nice price-point too.

[Langer]

I'll be ordering a 940AM2+ for Prometheus before April - or sooner if I snipe a sale.

[Cutless009]

Yah Im looking at picking up the 3ghz PhenomII end of the month. Im more than slightly nervous about it though, last time I went with AMD, I got screwed :down:

[zlojack]

Hmm...they sure are interesting looking chips, but the only advantage I see over i7 is the cheaper RAM.

[Cutless009]

and the unlocked multi at a lower price point.

[zlojack]

and the unlocked multi at a lower price point.

True, but the unlocked multi hasn't proven much of a boon for the i7 so far. Maybe for extreme benching, I suppose.

I don't have phase or LN2 capability anyway :(

[FrostByte]

im going to be getting one, but i have to wait for tax money and by that time the actual AM3 will be out and i will gun for those instead.

[Cutless009]

Any links to the AM3 tech specs?

[Langer]

I know that it's DDR3 for starters.

here's the rest (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9599)

The final roadmaps aren't revealed yet as far as I know. The AM3 stuff will be here June most likely from what I've seen around.

[FrostByte]

we will begin to see AM3 processors out next month.

February 2009-----AM3 Phenom II X4 910 2.6GHz 8 MB
February 2009-----AM3 Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz 6 MB
February 2009-----AM3 Phenom II X4 805 2.5GHz 6 MB
February 2009-----AM3 Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz 7.5 MB
February 2009-----AM3 Phenom II X3 710 2.6GHz 7.5 MB
April 2009---------AM3 Phenom II X4 945 3.0GHz 8 MB
April 2009---------AM3 Athlon X4 615 2.7GHz 2 MB
April 2009---------AM3 Athlon X4 605 2.5GHz 2 MB
April 2009---------AM3 Athlon X3 420 2.8GHz 1.5 MB
April 2009---------AM3 Athlon X3 410 2.6GHz 1.5 MB
June 2009---------AM3 Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz 2 MB
June 2009---------AM3 Athlon X2 235 2.7GHz 2 MB

[Cutless009]

And this is theyre response to Intel's i7? Would be interesting to see them both make use of DDR3 triple channel technology AND surpass intel's clocking ability.

[Langer]

That's the exciting part Cutless. War means price battles!

[FrostByte]

BTW, im looking at getting THIS (http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=13997) board when its released hopefully soon.

[FrostByte]

got my 940 BE and the M3A78-T board, but i feel like such a noob again with AMD overclocking. Anyone can give me some pointers for this board most of all?

[Eternalightwith]

I just brought the M4A79 Deluxe from newegg.
Got the ram and 940 already.

[FrostByte]

how is that board working out for you?

[Eternalightwith]

If you're talking to me, I just go it with rush processing from newegg today. So hopefully it will be in my hands tomorrow, friday at the lastest. Then I can play on the weekend! :coke:

... You know, I think I have to try some angel dust. Just once, to see what all the fuss is about.

David

P.S. Colors.... I like the black. Blue ok.... Orange niiiice.... Red.. .. Yup... White Mmeehh. Blue and orange and white
:puke: Make blue darker, and get rid of the white! Make it black orange and red, or red and dark blue. Come on, MB makers. What's a few extra cents among friends? I don't mind paying an extra 5-10 bucks for some eye salvation. Srly, I'm going blind here.



how is that board working out for you?

[FrostByte]

Here is my Validation link, its not OCCT stable, but its 100% game stable tho.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=495472

[Kayin]

I'll be ordering one to replace my Q6600 with. Damn board refuses to give me what I want. I'll give the wife the Q6600, this is faster than it anyway.

[FrostByte]

thats what i upgraded from, big difference in performance from my point of view

[Ricey]

Can it run on an old M2N32-SLI Deluxe? :)

[Kayin]

Yeah it can.

Noticed a Phenom II on DDR3 took the 3DMark06 record, that's damn impressive. Seriously, I mean this is putting AMD back in the game. It's also making me want to postpone and get the 945 when it releases for DDR3 and work on flogging it senseless.

A nice thing to note is the non-linear scaling of performance when overclocking-from slightly below the i7 to above its performance at super-high clocks. Since we're not leaving it stock, this could be an important factor in all this...

[ND40oz]

Yeah it can.

Noticed a Phenom II on DDR3 took the 3DMark06 record, that's damn impressive. Seriously, I mean this is putting AMD back in the game. It's also making me want to postpone and get the 945 when it releases for DDR3 and work on flogging it senseless.

A nice thing to note is the non-linear scaling of performance when overclocking-from slightly below the i7 to above its performance at super-high clocks. Since we're not leaving it stock, this could be an important factor in all this...

If you look at the CPU scores for 06, the Intel chips are still at the top, the WR run had better SM2 and SM3 scores then it's Intel competitors. The Phenom IIs seem to be around 8500 for the CPU and the i7s are getting around 9000.

[FrostByte]

both the I7 and AM3 are really close in performance in many areas, but as with history, each one has its strong points vs the other.

[Kayin]

Vantage seriously favors Intel, too. Enough for me to call it suspect.

[zlojack]

Vantage seriously favors Intel, too. Enough for me to call it suspect.
So what benchmark is acceptable?

[Kayin]

None, really, but we put up with them.

My point is that Vantage's CPU benchmark is nonindicative of real-world performance.

If in games an AM3 x3 can equal an i7, but it's stomped in Vantage, that's not an accurate benchmark.

[zlojack]

None, really, but we put up with them.

My point is that Vantage's CPU benchmark is nonindicative of real-world performance.

If in games an AM3 x3 can equal an i7, but it's stomped in Vantage, that's not an accurate benchmark.

Of course it's an accurate benchmark. It's just a measure of what runs better in that benchmark. Whether that has any bearing on anything else is irrelevant.

Anyway, I think we've seen for a while that the differences with i7 in games are minimal, except in multi-gpu setups, where i7 seems to offer better scaling.

But for crunching, i7 wins.

[Kayin]

And I don't dispute that point.

I still recognize i7 as massively faster in some apps. It's just when you're measuring an arbitrary unit, and there is no definition of what that unit is, it's kinda wack.

Seeing as I will primarily game on mine, it makes sense to go ahead and save the money I can there and drop it on GPUs. If I go i7, I have to stick with 4870s. If I go Phenom II, I can go 4870x2. To me, it's a clear winner.

As should always be said, this is my opinion, when I have the platform in hand I'll be better equipped to make more solid statements.

Would it be a better comparison to run the i7 benches with HT off? Got a feeling that Vantage is running it as an octal-core, which is no apples to apples comparison no matter what-kinda like the nVidia Physx driver fiasco, as well. At any rate, I'm preferring gaming benchmarks at the moment-it's more indicative of what I'm doing.

[zlojack]

And I don't dispute that point.

I still recognize i7 as massively faster in some apps. It's just when you're measuring an arbitrary unit, and there is no definition of what that unit is, it's kinda wack.

Seeing as I will primarily game on mine, it makes sense to go ahead and save the money I can there and drop it on GPUs. If I go i7, I have to stick with 4870s. If I go Phenom II, I can go 4870x2. To me, it's a clear winner.

As should always be said, this is my opinion, when I have the platform in hand I'll be better equipped to make more solid statements.

Would it be a better comparison to run the i7 benches with HT off? Got a feeling that Vantage is running it as an octal-core, which is no apples to apples comparison no matter what-kinda like the nVidia Physx driver fiasco, as well. At any rate, I'm preferring gaming benchmarks at the moment-it's more indicative of what I'm doing.
Well, I think it depends on what kind of comparison you want to do.

If you want to compare 4 cores vs. 4 cores, clock for clock, then you might turn HT off. If you want to compare CPU A vs. CPU B, then I think you keep HT on, given it's a capability of that chip.

As for the PhysX thing, I agree that running the PhysX app on the GPU is not a valid comparison, but what if you've got a dedicated PhysX card? Then it becomes a different question as now you're back to what should be a more accurate depiction of the PhysX capabilities of the system.

Still, at the end of the day, gaming benchmarks are what I look at first as well, since that's what I do. Gaming and crunching.

[Kayin]

With the news of the x3s unlocking to x4 and some of them performing just as well, this should help AMD's image as well. If nothing else, it will bring back memories of trace tapes on CPUs and playing with defroster pens, then wire modding...

[ND40oz]

Red, the X3 is often as fast as the i7 in games, where it counts. 3 cores versus virtual 8=pwn.

Also, unlocked multi, drop in compatibility and future proofing. AMD proved they actually care about the customer's investments.

i7 turned out to not be the Jesus chip. Only in some areas is it the rape pwnage it was made out to be, and those areas are not always the areas we're all worried about.

Most stuff is GPU bound anyway, and the average Joe will do better with P II and a better GPU than i7 and a slower one. That's where this is positioned in the market. And it is delivering.

You really think the primary function of most computers is gaming?

[Kayin]

Mine is, though I do a lot of SketchUp as well.

I almost never IM, I have no social networking, I barely e-mail, and I can't even edit a spreadsheet. My machines are for gaming. Sketchup is faster than a pencil and paper.

[ND40oz]

Which is fine, based on your usage Phenom II may offer the best price for performance ratio. But for other users, who run VMs, fold/crunch, encode video, ect., the i7 fits best for them when it comes to price for performance.

[Kayin]

Actually, the AMD rapes the Intel on virtualization as well.

I also crunch on everything I own. However, I am not afforded the luxury of buying systems solely to crunch, so my all-around machine has to serve.

I HAVE the money to go get an i7 965, BloodRage or whatever board you want, 24GB of DDR3, 3x285 SLI AND a 260 for PhysX, and watercool it, but I'd rather have the AMD system and a new living room. As small as my living room is, that's possible. And, best part is, for my system's intended use, I'll really lose nothing.

Can we stop with the trolling? Like it or not, the amazing performance of AMD through the Athlon era (Athlon-Athlon XP-Athlon 64) is what gave us the amazing enthusiast market we have today. I mean, if we went back to soldering and jumpers, I'd be fine, but how many could say the same? There's room for all of us, and we didn't come over into the Intel side.

[ND40oz]

Actually, the AMD rapes the Intel on virtualization as well.

I also crunch on everything I own. However, I am not afforded the luxury of buying systems solely to crunch, so my all-around machine has to serve.

I HAVE the money to go get an i7 965, BloodRage or whatever board you want, 24GB of DDR3, 3x285 SLI AND a 260 for PhysX, and watercool it, but I'd rather have the AMD system and a new living room. As small as my living room is, that's possible. And, best part is, for my system's intended use, I'll really lose nothing.

Can we stop with the trolling? Like it or not, the amazing performance of AMD through the Athlon era (Athlon-Athlon XP-Athlon 64) is what gave us the amazing enthusiast market we have today. I mean, if we went back to soldering and jumpers, I'd be fine, but how many could say the same? There's room for all of us, and we didn't come over into the Intel side.

So you honestly believe an X3 will rape an i7 when it comes to virtualization performance? On the Enterprise VM side, AMD doesn't even have an answer for Dunnington yet, and you think Shanghai is going to hang with Gainestown and Beckton?

I already said for you, a Phenom II may be your best bet, that's fine, have fun with it. For others, the i7 is better choice. But don't make blanket statements about everyone buying a computer solely for gaming and that the X3 is a much better choice because it's cheaper and can hang with i7 when gaming.

[RedRaider]

Maybe I'll buy one to see what it's like.:)

[Cutless009]

I wont even consider AMD until the Phenom III's and AMD's new socket come out. Till then, AMD can kiss my ass :up:

[FrostByte]

ND, here, read up what AMD is giving the server market and possible translation to the enthusiast market later this year.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16448

[ND40oz]

ND, here, read up what AMD is giving the server market and possible translation to the enthusiast market later this year.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16448

If they could release Istanbul this quarter, it would be great, but considering it's going to be a H2 release, it's most likely going to end up with AMD still a step behind, but then again, if it's priced right, who knows.

http://it.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=575

Depending on the application, Istanbul might prove to be competitive with the quad-core Nehalem. It is clear that the hex-core "Westmere" which will have a slightly improved architecture will be a different matter.

[Chicken Patty]

Cutless, not sure if you are still interested. I just bought my Phenom II today. On factory heatsink, got to 3.8 GHz easily on my DFI 790 GX board. 1.440v on the CPU.

This is a pretty darn good run for an AMD in super pi

http://img.techpowerup.org/090316/Capture021.jpg

[FrostByte]

that is amazing, whats the batch number on that processor?

[Chicken Patty]

that is amazing, whats the batch number on that processor?

Here you go buddy. I need to order a pump, reservoir, and some tubing to finish my water loop for it, probably will overnight it sometime this week. probably order today :D

Batch # is

CACVC AC 0901GPMW

[FrostByte]

i cant even really get 3.7 to be stable with 1.5v let alone go higher with less voltage, this is peculiar to me.

[Chicken Patty]

i cant even really get 3.7 to be stable with 1.5v let alone go higher with less voltage, this is peculiar to me.

I just need to get around to ordering the pump and reservoir. I'll keep you posted if I get some new #'s

[Zeus]

I think AMD produced a nice new platform with some nice overclocking potential at an affordable price.

The only downside is that there aren't any vendors (yet) that make chipset and/or mosfet waterblocks for AMD boards. :(

I haven't seen any, anyone seen some yet?

[Kayin]

I've adapted first gen TwinPlex XTs for chipsets, and FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFU makes universal mosfet blocks. In addition, MIPS makes a lot of blocks no one else does, and most ASUS designs use the same block, available form AC as well and WaterCool.

In short, nobody American makes it, but they're there.

[Worthy]

Yah Im looking at picking up the 3ghz PhenomII end of the month. Im more than slightly nervous about it though, last time I went with AMD, I got screwed :down:


I don't think there is anything to worry about with the phenom 2.
From what i have seen they are pretty nice and while they arent a core i7, they ovreclock pretty good too.

It all comes down to what your expectation is be it a bencher, or a game machine. But I have seen they can also put out a pretty badass bench too.

[Chicken Patty]

hey guys. I did a comparison myself. NOt very detailed, but gets the job done. Check it out.

Results are in page 1, screenshots are throughout the thread

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=89051

[Worthy]

Very good info.

The AMD is a pretty impressive chip, especially for the price.

[Chicken Patty]

Very good info.

The AMD is a pretty impressive chip, especially for the price.

it is indeed. But the i7 is just so powerful! :cheers:

[Chicken Patty]

I had my AMD rig running on one monitor and the intel in the other, and using both computers at the same time, you can really tell the difference in speed. Whether the i7 had HT on or HT off, it just felt faster than the AMD around windows and everything. I used to open 3dmark on the AMD computer first, and the intel one will finish loading quicker. Its just an amazing CPU and in my eyes so much worth the extra bucks over the AMD.

However, I do agree and AMD has done a great job specially compared to the older gen Phenoms. The socket AM3 CPU's for AMD are looking very good too!

[Worthy]

it is indeed. But the i7 is just so powerful! :cheers:

It is, I laugh sometimes when I realize how much stuff I can have going on at the same time with no problems. I am also super impressed with the better scaling of multiple GPUs, the speed of a windows boot, and the much faster performance in CPU intensive games. I don't know if you're familiar, but I play this ww2 submarine game called silent hunter 4 online, and you should see the memory activity on my ballistix with that game. It's more than crysis. Definitely a good game to test a CPU. And the i7 mows right through it with ease.

I also think though, that while phenom2 is only really a further refinement of the previous one (and a good one at that), that they will probably release something pretty heavy with all the lessons they learned. If they can pull that off it would be great and kick intel right in the nuts. They would have to lower their prices to compete.

I live to see that day because everytime I see the price of an intel extreme processor, it just pisses me off. I mean, they're great, but they have some pair of balls charging that much.

[ILikeCosmosS]

i also do agree that phenom 2 is great right now i can even decide if i should get the i7 or save some cash!

but remember by the end of 2009 they will release 32nm verisions that can reach 4ghZ stock clocks

i fucking hate intel guts with there shytty pentium 4 i have currently and the worth thing is that the fan isnt attach to the heatsink :(

No offence to anybody but i am dying to see AMD own Intel with Istanbul ( the 6 and 12 core verision) and i am waiting for them to update hypertransport to 3.1 which gives i think 5200mts

I hope intel gpu's fail to the ground and amd beat the gtx350

( the reason i know this is because i did quite of reasearch on amd to find out when phenom II was coming)

[Worthy]

I just want to see an even playing field where competition drives prices down.
No one should have to pay 1500 bucks for a fucking unlocked cpu. That's bullshit.
Especially in this day and age.

[Kayin]

So I paid 150 for one.

It's pretty damn nice, even if it's not i7. Still handles each and every game I throw at it.

[Chicken Patty]

I agree with you guys, I love AMD but right now they are getting their butts kicked as far as performance. Howoever AM3 is supposed to look really good, just have to wait until that platform matures a bit.

[Chicken Patty]

So I paid 150 for one.

It's pretty damn nice, even if it's not i7. Still handles each and every game I throw at it.

Nowdays, you dont need an i7, so I agree, neither do you need $500 video cards, but if you have the money and want something that just blows you away, i think i7 is the way to go.

dont get me wrong, I love my phenom II

[Worthy]

Nowdays, you dont need an i7, so I agree, neither do you need $500 video cards, but if you have the money and want something that just blows you away, i think i7 is the way to go.

dont get me wrong, I love my phenom II


I agree fully. I would have bought a phenom 2 myself, but one thing I didn't like was the selection of boards at release time. It's almost like even board manufacturers don't give AMD the time of day they deserve either. The boards are plain, generic and devoid of all the cool features intel boards are slathered with. The last AMD board I really enjoyed was my ASUS Crosshair.

And regarding the video cards, after dropping 900 bucks on 2 3870x2 cards the last go around, only to have all the problems I had in the beginning, there is no way I will ever spend that much again on any cards. No card to me is worth that much. 250 bucks is the most I go on any card anymore.:bird:

[Kayin]

The very latest boards are something else, bro.

I have the update to the K9A2 Platinum: 4xPCI-e x16 slots, SAS support, DDR3 and ACC, so that's pretty much everything-I can even adust the BIOS settings from in Windows with the OC dial setting...

[Worthy]

The very latest boards are something else, bro.

I have the update to the K9A2 Platinum: 4xPCI-e x16 slots, SAS support, DDR3 and ACC, so that's pretty much everything-I can even adust the BIOS settings from in Windows with the OC dial setting...

Nice. I really want to try one. My justification is for a new machine for my wife. But from a realist standpoint right now, there is nothing wrong with her q6600, maximus formula and 3870x2. It still hums. Great system, and close to a phenom 2. I am going to jump on the next gen chip and wait it out. My Spider Senses tell me the next one is going to kick some major ass.

It's hard not to get ahead of yourself. I'm still finishing the i7 I have now which will be changed weekly for months from there, and I already have ADD.
Does this make me an addict?:coke:

[FrostByte]

i sure hope to see some really loaded motherboards for the AM3 platform since AMD now has some very good processors out.

[Chicken Patty]

I agree fully. I would have bought a phenom 2 myself, but one thing I didn't like was the selection of boards at release time. It's almost like even board manufacturers don't give AMD the time of day they deserve either. The boards are plain, generic and devoid of all the cool features intel boards are slathered with. The last AMD board I really enjoyed was my ASUS Crosshair.

And regarding the video cards, after dropping 900 bucks on 2 3870x2 cards the last go around, only to have all the problems I had in the beginning, there is no way I will ever spend that much again on any cards. No card to me is worth that much. 250 bucks is the most I go on any card anymore.:bird:

Yeah I bought my 4870 for $250 a few months back, waited till last month and got me a 2nd one for $164 shipped. :cheers:

However the M3A79-T board was very good, and the M4A79-T is excellent. But Intel boards the majority tend to be better designed.

[FrostByte]

hopefully we will see some of the same goodies we find on intel boards end up on AMD as well.

[Chicken Patty]

hopefully we will see some of the same goodies we find on intel boards end up on AMD as well.

I hope so too!

[FrostByte]

the new MSI board looks somewhat more promising than whats out right now. What i really want to see is more SATA connections as i use a lot of HDD's and much more high end cooling on critical components.

[Chicken Patty]

the new MSI board looks somewhat more promising than whats out right now. What i really want to see is more SATA connections as i use a lot of HDD's and much more high end cooling on critical components.

yes that board looks great:cheers:

[Kayin]

FrostByte, how much cooling to you want to put on a chip that dissipates 9w? Seriously, I've seen one run without a sink.

It reminds me of when we were developing Grouper. MAN that shit runs cool.

[FrostByte]

i like everything to be as cool as possible, the less heat the happier i am with pushing my system.

[Kayin]

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=544556

[Chicken Patty]

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=544556

good clock, have you tried to unlock the 4th core???

[Worthy]

Yeah I bought my 4870 for $250 a few months back, waited till last month and got me a 2nd one for $164 shipped. :cheers:

However the M3A79-T board was very good, and the M4A79-T is excellent. But Intel boards the majority tend to be better designed.

I'm considering adding a third one myself, but I am unsure whether the last two running at x8 would be of any benefit. Seems to be conflicting info and I still need to read up on that. 2 of them kick serious ass though as far as I;m concerned.

[Kayin]

I'd have to mod the BIOS. May try that at work today.

[Chicken Patty]

I'm considering adding a third one myself, but I am unsure whether the last two running at x8 would be of any benefit. Seems to be conflicting info and I still need to read up on that. 2 of them kick serious ass though as far as I;m concerned.

Yes they do my friend, games run soooo smooth, and 3dmark is not a joke anymore.

I'd have to mod the BIOS. May try that at work today.

k, keep us posted.