So looking into Auto Fan controllers

[Demthios]

So after my idea of the Aquaero with fan amps got squashed I decided to look into the a mCubed info. I have some questions for all of you that are running these. I'm looking into controlling three different radiator setups. Not positive if I'm going to run them in a push/pull setup or not but since b@llz0r's gave me the idea of running on for idle and then both for load, he has me considering this effort. But either way I'm looking at getting the bigNG and possibility of 2 more miniNG's can all three of these plus the sensor hub all be controlled via the software?? Also does anyone run the software under Vista 64bit any issues??

[RedRaider]

I have an expert in bigNG coming here tomorrow...:up:

[RedRaider]

IIRC, you can run the bigNG, (2) miniNG and sensor hub together with the software suite.

I recently read on another forum, where several users were successfully running the Mcubed software on Vista 64. :up:

[Cutless009]

IIRC, you can run the bigNG, (2) miniNG and sensor hub together with the software suite.

I recently read on another forum, where several users were successfully running the Mcubed software on Vista 64. :up:

Wow I hope so, would suck ass if I couldnt run the software, the only version of windows I currently have an install disk to is Vista 64

[lloyd_mcse]

Yeah I love my BigNGs - and both of mine are run on Vista x64 :up:

[Cutless009]

Phew thats good to hear, scared me for a min there :P

[Cutless009]

I have an expert in bigNG coming here tomorrow...:up:

Ask him if theres any display he recommends specifically to show the data from the BigNG (fan speeds, temperatures, etc)

Im thinking crystalfontz, but not sure yet.

[Demthios]

Thanks for the info, now can Everest read all the info from the two mini's or just the big?

[RedRaider]

The calvary is on the way, in the form of Synxx....:ninja: :ninja1: :guitarhero: :hoola: :rockout: :popcorn:

[Snyxxx]

The calvary is on the way, in the form of Synxx

Thanks RRR. By the way, my user name has three Xs as in triple X as in pron. :D

Let me get my bearings and start to hopefully provide some info. RRR is too generous because I am no expert at the bigNG, but do use it and will try to answer what I can. Stand by.

[Xilikon]

Welcome Snyxxx :D

[Eddie3dfx]

Here is the dilemma that nobody has found a solution to..
I spoke to the gent at crystal fontz for about 20 mins in regards to aftermarket programs being able to read cpu temps.

Aquero, innovatek, big-ng (I believe), and other fan controllers cannot read the internal temps (cpu, northbridge, southbridge, gpus, etc..)

Motherboard Monitor 5 did work with crystal fontz at one time but then one day m5 decided to quit production..
He said there might be a solution with speed-fan and crystal fontz, but wasn't 100% sure, since water-cooling only makes up a small portion of crystal fontz sales and he that he was only the hardware guru, not software.

When I get crystal fontz setup, I'll tinker with it a bit and see if their is a solution that let's just adjust fan/rpm to onboard cpu temps.

[lloyd_mcse]

I've always used matrix LCD displays, does anyone know if they work with a BigNG?

[Cutless009]

Id be interested to know for certain if ANY LCD displays work, I dont really care which as its just going to be used as a display for me.

[Eddie3dfx]

Id be interested to know for certain if ANY LCD displays work, I dont really care which as its just going to be used as a display for me.

If it's simply a matter of output to lcd, then any universal usb lcd should work.

[Cutless009]

If it's simply a matter of output to lcd, then any universal usb lcd should work.

Then what would you be plugging into exactly, whats the data flow? BigNG>Mobo>OS>USB Header>Display?

[Eddie3dfx]

Then what would you be plugging into exactly, whats the data flow? BigNG>Mobo>OS>USB Header>Display?

It's just a lcd usb internal cable to usb internal plug on the motherboard.
um... I am not 100% sure, but I don't think their is a plug on the big-ng for lcd output. If it had this, I probably would of picked it up :0

[Cutless009]

Yes but if the BigNG is feeding data to the computer so it can be read and modified by the software it comes with, surely there should be a way to display this data by taking it from the OS and handing it to the LCD?

[Xilikon]

Don't forget Samurize as well, it's a nifty software that I used to read the 2 SF800 readings in a correct format.

[Snyxxx]

Don't forget Samurize as well, it's a nifty software that I used to read the 2 SF800 readings in a correct format.

As far as I can tell from the bigNG forums, Samurize is the only option for outputting to an LCD dispaly. I do not use an LCD dispaly, but I will dig into it some more.

[Cutless009]

Yah if you can verify that Samurize will let me display to ANY LCD display thatd be great :up:

[KaptCrunch]

or use SMbus to control fans with IC max6616 (http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4656)

[Snyxxx]

In regards to two miniNgs connecting to one bigNG, please see the following discussion from good ol' Ranker and one of the mcubed reps.



RE: BigNG + 1 Sensorbus + 2 miniNG? Possible?

Urlo Wrote:

Hi,
Yes, you can connect all of them without problem. But there is one problem not ready implemented: the bigNG can communicate with ony one miniNG at the same time. So you can configure both after each other, but monitoring only one unit. And this is only a firmware restriction at the moment and will be added...


Thank you so much for responding Urlo. I was about to give up on Mcubed and return the products.

I assume that it is safe to Daisy chain the units like this:
BigNG -> MiniNG -> MiniNG -> Sensorbus

I understand that the BigNG can only monitor 1 minNG at the current time. But will the setup I showed above affect the Sensorbus from communicating with the BigNG?

Also, when can we expect Vista drivers? And what is the estimated date that the BigNG can communicate with 2 miniNG's?

Thanks again for answering the questions. Us Americans appreciate it!


RE: BigNG + 1 Sensorbus + 2 miniNG? Possible?

Hi,
You can connect the bus in chain or star - only avoid to make loops because it is possible to blow the fuse when conencting wrong.

To have a proper working system you have to address one miniNG with "1" and the other with "2" (its a jumper setting). Actually the bigNG will read only address 1. I hope we can add this in the next big software version which I expect somwhere in the summer.

Vista drivers are actually available and working on several systems. There seems to be only an internal Vista update problem which changes the driver to some kind of card reader drive. There is a workaround posted in the forum, but I wasn't able to try it yet.

[Snyxxx]

Vista drivers are actually available and working on several systems. There seems to be only an internal Vista update problem which changes the driver to some kind of card reader drive. There is a workaround posted in the forum, but I wasn't able to try it yet.

It appears that if in Windows Vista 64 if you do a windows update, it will try to tell you to update to a later driver. It seems you should NOT do this.

Maybe lloyd_mcse can give some insight how to load the navigator software properly in Vista 64.

[RedRaider]

Someone go get me Ranker...:innocent:

I think he'd enjoy it here.

[lloyd_mcse]

It appears that if in Windows Vista 64 if you do a windows update, it will try to tell you to update to a later driver. It seems you should NOT do this.

Maybe lloyd_mcse can give some insight how to load the navigator software properly in Vista 64.

All I did was follow the usual install procedure, which IIRC is install sw, plug in USB cable and install driver, well i just let vista install the driver through update so didn't use their driver, though they might have sorted their driver by now :shrug:
I'll be able to tell you more tomorrow - reinstall in progress :up:

[Snyxxx]

All I did was follow the usual install procedure, which IIRC is install sw, plug in USB cable and install driver, well i just let vista install the driver through update so didn't use their driver, though they might have sorted their driver by now :shrug:
I'll be able to tell you more tomorrow - reinstall in progress :up:

Thanks. The info is so old at the mcubed forum it is ridiculous. Most of the Vista 64 discussion I saw was from mid to late 2007. I am sure something improved by then. I cannot say as I have not yet installed Vista 64.

[Snyxxx]

This is another post from the mcubed forum and may be of some help for getting some bigNG of the info to an LCD display. But it does not look too promising.


I totally agree, something has to be done, either Urlo needs to update the software/firmware or simply open-source it. Third party plugins for LCDs are totally stagnant - I've only been able to get LCDHype to work, but LCDStudio won't read the values - who knows if it's a software issue with Navigator or with the plugin, but with no development on the base product, no one is going to want to work on any of the plug ins.

[Demthios]

Thanks for all the info Snyxxx! Gonna have to dig around those forums and see what I can do....

[Eternalightwith]

I thought people were saying that support and updates for BigNG were no more... Did they start supporting it again?

DAvid

[Snyxxx]

I think only the USB driver was updated by a 3rd party. The navigator software and firmware are still OLD. Works in Vista 64 though.

[Eternalightwith]

So after my idea of the Aquaero with fan amps got squashed


Why did you squash his idea? I thought this was a perfectly valid route to go?

[Snyxxx]

Why did you squash his idea? I thought this was a perfectly valid route to go?

You may want to also ask RRR about this. he told me this combo DID NOT work.

[RedRaider]

The Aquaero and mCubed FanAmps don't mate together at all. Big_Daddy tried very hard to get the two to work and was unsuccessful. They FanAmp doesn't like the way the Aquaero adjust the voltage or something.

When I get time, I'm going to see if I can get them to jive, though I highly doubt I'll be successful.

Therefore I purchased the bigNG and miniNG. They FanAmps will work with them.

[andersson.j]

The Aquaero and mCubed FanAmps don't mate together at all. Big_Daddy tried very hard to get the two to work and was unsuccessful. They FanAmp doesn't like the way the Aquaero adjust the voltage or something.

When I get time, I'm going to see if I can get them to jive, though I highly doubt I'll be successful.

Therefore I purchased the bigNG and miniNG. They FanAmps will work with them.
I think virtualrain used aquaero with FanAmps in his RainMaker (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=176797)?

[RedRaider]

I think virtualrain used aquaero with FanAmps in his RainMaker (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=176797)?

Yes, VirtualRain did use FanAms with his Aquaero. He used the FanAmps to power his DDC pumps and monitor them. He did not use the FanAmps to control his fans.

The problem with using the Aquaero to power/control fans is that your only able to control (2) fans per channel. For my build that is worthless. I plan on having (7) PA120.3 radiators with (21) SanAce H1011 fans. Therefore I require (7) channels of control. The Aquaero will not be able to handle the amperage.

What you find when you hook a FanSmp into a channel on a Aquaero is that it the Aquaero will not be able to raise and lower the voltage output of the FanAmp. IIRC, Big_Daddy help me out here, the Aquaero will only swing the voltage of the FanAmp 1-2 volts. For what you're trying to accomplish that is useless for controlling fans. Pumps on the other hand, like VirtualRain had setup, would be fine because all he was looking for was a minimum level of control and Auto-Shotdown due to pump failure.

Like I previously stated, I'll soon be attempting to find a solution myself. Stay tuned for updates.

[Cutless009]

The only way Ive found to control the rediculous amounts of fans in my next build is to wire up toggle switches for each "channel" using Big Daddy's 7/12v trick with an off option on the switch itself, other than that it gets really difficult to control the really high amperage/wattage draw of so many fans.

[andersson.j]

This site (http://www.cpemma.co.uk/reg.html) might be of interest to some of you. It explains four different methods of varying voltage.

[Eternalightwith]

Low Drop-Out Regulators

A major drawback of the 317T and similar standard regulators is that 1.7–2 volts are lost from the 12V supply, so the fan can only run up to about 85% of its full speed and flow rating. Although this site is aimed at keeping noise down, there may be occasions when you want to turn the wick right up.
You can get much nearer the 12V input with the newer low-dropout regulators, and with the controller shown below my voltage loss running a 200mA (2.4W) fan was only 130mV (12V in, 11.87V out, 99% full speed!).
They cost a fair bit more than the humble 317T – Rapid Electronics price for a MIC29152 is £3.10 compared to 38p for a 317T – but when you factor in the other parts, especially with a fancy control knob, it's not such a big difference overall, and well worth it IMHO.
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/ldo1_sch.gif
I've used Micrel's (http://www.micrel.com/) MIC29152BT regulator, which is rated at 1.5A and comes in a 5-pin TO-220 case. If you need more current, the MIC29302BT is identical but rated to 3A, or the similar MIC29502BT will carry 5A. You may need a bigger heat-sink with the bigger boys. See the heat-sink page (http://www.cpemma.co.uk/heatsink.html) for the details.
Unlike the 317, the Reference Voltage is across R2, not R1, and the calculated voltage output is
Vout = 1.24(1 + [R1 + VR1] / R2)

With the resistors shown, the calculated output range works out at 6.9V to 12.5V, giving a bit of headroom if component tolerances run the wrong way. (The ±20% tolerance band on pots can play havoc with calculations – if your "10k" pot is below about 9k you won't get the full potential. The ratio of (R1+VR1):R2 must be over 8.7:1 – increase R1 to 12k or reduce R2 to 2k)
The two capacitors ensure stability, particularly useful with long supply leads. Some alternative resistors are given below to suit different minimum voltages.

Construction


http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/ldo1_vb.gif
Parts List Reg1MIC29152BT C1100n (0.1uF) 16V ceramic C210uF 16V aluminium electrolytic R110k 0.25W 5% or better (see below) R22k2 0.25W 5% or better (see below) VR110k lin pot, 16mm pcb mounting (see below) MiscTO220 heat-sink (20–25degC/W) & paste, control knob

Construction Guide – Component side view


http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 1
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 2
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 3
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 4
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 5
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 6
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 7
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 8
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 9
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 10
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 11
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 12
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 13
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 14
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/invisible.gif 1 2 12V Reg(1) j1 C1 (br) j3 VR1 3 Reg(2) j1 4 0V Reg(3) j2 C1 (br) R1 j3 VR1 5 Fan+ Reg(4) C2(+) R1 6 Reg(5) R2 VR1 7 Fan– j2 C2(–) R2
The stripboard is 7 rows x 14 columns, two track breaks as shown in red. Bend the regulator leads carefully. I found the best way was to support the outer legs as near the case as possible with a thumb-nail and bend outwards slightly, then support again on the other side (I use a dart tip, also very useful for curling resistor or diode leads for vertical mounting) and bend in to fit. The 2 & 4 leads need less bend, again support with a dart or fine screwdriver. Test for fit in the stripboard and fasten on the heatsink.
Output Range with various resistors R1VR1R2Min outputMax output 010k1k1.24v13.6v 4k710k1k55.1v13.4v 6k810k1k85.9v12.8v 8k210k2k6.3v12.5v 10k10k2k26.9v12.5v 047k5k11.24v12.7v 18k47k6k84.5v13.1v 33k47k8k26.2v13.3v 47k47k10k7.1v12.9v 43k50k10k6.6v12.7v
Dry-run assemble the components to ensure nothing fouls on the potentiometer or heat-sink, then make the track breaks and solder up, lowest components (links) first, finishing with the regulator. Check carefully, especially for any solder bridges; a multimeter with buzzer continuity check is handy for this, or a magnifying glass.
You can use a range of other resistors in the R1–VR1–R2 chain to give different minimum outputs, or to suit available potentiometers; some examples are given in the table right, or you can work your own values out using the above formula. It's no problem using 100k or 470k pots, just multiply each resistor by 10. For the minimum output, 1.24V, use a wire link instead of R1.
Of course, you won't get over 12V output from a 12v supply, but the headroom allows for some component tolerance.
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/graphics/ldo1.jpg This regulator can also be used with high-value NTC thermistors in a thermal controller, using the thermistor in place of R2 and a suitable pre-set potentiometer for VR1. For a 100k @25°C thermistor (Maplin CR05F), R1+VR1 set to 470k would give outputs of 5.8V at 20°C, 7V at 25°C, 9V at 31°C and full-speed at 37°C, so R1=430k, VR1=100k would be on the button for fine tuning.
If you want to check different thermistors, there's an Excel spreadsheet download (http://www.cpemma.co.uk/l200c.zip) for the L200 regulator that can be adapted, with the complex formula shown here (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWin2%28%27thermistor.html%27%29) incorporated.


So all you have to do is put the NTC thermoresistor in the water and wha-LA!

Question.... Is there a device where you change the resistance based upon a changing voltage input? If it exists, you could put that in place of thermoresistor and attach other end to Aquaero. ;)