Pesky Vibration Noise From Pumps

[Snyxxx]

Maybe this should go in the Vendor section, but this does not really have to do with the pump mounting device.

I love the UN design pump mounts for the DDCs. These mounts allowed me a lot of freedom that I needed.

However, if I connect them top the case by any type of fastener, I get an obnoxious amplification of sound. I originally screwed them to the case on foam, but they still make too much noise.

If I just set the pump/bracket assembly on Petra's Gel, the noise is gone. But then I cannot get the orientation I need due to hose torque or hose bending stiffness.

Anyone come up with a soft mount that can resist external forces. I tried velcro, no go.


I have two pumps in different locations. Both make the same noise.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/Snyxxx/Watercooled%20G70/IMG_3399.jpg

CPU Loop:

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/Snyxxx/Watercooled%20G70/IMG_3404.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/Snyxxx/Watercooled%20G70/IMG_3405.jpg


Everything Else Loop:

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/Snyxxx/Watercooled%20G70/IMG_3401.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/Snyxxx/Watercooled%20G70/IMG_3403.jpg

[link1896]

maybe try suspending the pump with elastic like this, will take some creativity, but it removes all mechanical coupling with hard drives quite well

http://www.hackszine.com/hdsilence_20080410.jpg

[Armeniandave]

Snyxxx I am sorry you are experiencing vibration. My mounts normally help reduce vibration, not amplify it, however the problem you are having would be very annoying and therefore unacceptable.

Normally when I hear of this problem the root cause is a not too tight joint in the case. Sometimes when they rivet cases together they don't rivet all the way. This would make the case susceptible to vibration. Because you mentioned that both pumps have the same vibration and are mounted in different locations I am fairly confident it's in the case. Can you identify exactly where the vibration is manifesting itself? Push on different parts of the case and see if one place stops the vibration. If it does look closely at that area and see how the case is put together.

You mentioned that you put it on Petras gel but you could not get it tight enough. Petras gel is great for killing vibration. If you could cut a smaller piece than the size of the bracket and put it underneath and then tighten the screws evenly you could probably get it pretty squished. This should withstand the torque you mentioned earlier.

I am committed to help you through this problem so please try what I have said and post back. Also if you have any more info please post that also.

:un:

[bigslappy]

are u using rubber gromments between the bracket & the bolt heads
also the bolts/nutz & the case where they attach ?
cause if not then u have Not isolated the vibration at all .
as it's running thru the bolts right to the case

[Snyxxx]

@Dave, thanks for your input and committment. I do like the brackets a lot and will keep them somehow.

@Bigslappy, you are correct. I did not use any rubber isolation between the mounting bolts to the case and bracket itself. I guess I thought the paxmate would dampen it. I did use them between the pump and bracket, but not at the case side though.

Good suggestion, I will test that and report back.

[Baleful]

If the rubber grommets don't work (didn't work for me) try thicker foam. I found some black foam that's 1" thick, cut it to the demensions of the bottom of the DDC, then screwed it down. Took care of the noise instantly. My DDC is the quietest thing in my system hands down.

It's not the best solution visually, but it worked great for killing the noise.

[Septim]

i would suggest using 2 rubber gromets per mounting hole, one attached to the hole, and another extra, before connecting to the case... else, something else might be a little loose?

[Gazmtk]

if you have a look at this setup, there is no Pump vibration noise, and yes I know how bad it is, thats why I use dense foam under my pumps now ;)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zVca8DM-8tA&feature=channel_page

[andersson.j]

I'm having the same problem. Currently I've got my DDCs mounted with these:
http://vcore.dk/images/7018_gummiophaengLaing-p.gif
But they're too stiff so it doesn't help much.

I almost bought a couple of Watercools silentstar DDC-Proboxes (http://vcore.dk/shop/silentstar-ddc-probox-1019p.html). But they don't really solve the vibration issues. They would still need to be mounted in a way that eliminates vibrations. Also these pumps can run pretty hot so I don't like the idea of putting them in a non cooled insulated box.

So I've been thinking about building my own sound dampening box with heatsinks. Perhaps something like mCubeds Vertical Silence (http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=223) but for DDCs with aftermarket tops.

Any thoughts on how a box like this should be constructed? :hmm:
What kind of frequencies does DDCs generate and how does one best stop these from getting out? Bitumen? Rubber? How thick? Should it be heavy?
What about the cooling?
I don't know much about sound and vibrations so any input is much appreciated!
Maybe I should seek help at some hi-fi forum, they should know this stuff?

[Snyxxx]

I'm having the same problem. Currently I've got my DDCs mounted with these:
http://vcore.dk/images/7018_gummiophaengLaing-p.gif
But they're too stiff so it doesn't help much.

I almost bought a couple of Watercools silentstar DDC-Proboxes (http://vcore.dk/shop/silentstar-ddc-probox-1019p.html). But they don't really solve the vibration issues. They would still need to be mounted in a way that eliminates vibrations. Also these pumps can run pretty hot so I don't like the idea of putting them in a non cooled insulated box.

So I've been thinking about building my own sound dampening box with heatsinks. Perhaps something like mCubeds Vertical Silence (http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=223) but for DDCs with aftermarket tops.

Any thoughts on how a box like this should be constructed? :hmm:
What kind of frequencies does DDCs generate and how does one best stop these from getting out? Bitumen? Rubber? How thick? Should it be heavy?
What about the cooling?
I don't know much about sound and vibrations so any input is much appreciated!
Maybe I should seek help at some hi-fi forum, they should know this stuff?

I have also used those same supports with no luck. Sounds great in theory, but as you say, they are too stiff.

I am going to follow the above advice and first try to put some rubber O-rings or grommets in the screw holes to keep any metal (screw) to metal (case) contact. I am also going to the hardware store and look for some thick foam/rubber to better mount.

If I have the pump just sitting on Petra's gel, all is fine. But the tube torque does not make this a good solution for me. I need the pump foundation to resist the external loads.

[andersson.j]

I'm trying to make my server as silent as possible so I'm researching how to silence the hdds and pumps.

It's got two DDCs in series and I've found that the second pump becomes significantly louder than the first pump when running both simultaneously. If I only run the second pump it's no louder than the first pump. I've read that placing a res between the pumps could fix the problem by dissipating cavitations. The theory behind this solution is beyond my fluid dynamic knowledge but I'll give it a try when I rebuild the loop. Has anyone ever tried this method?

When it comes to removing vibrations I can think of two possible solutions.
Bolt the vibrating component to a heavy object (like a thick steel plate). With enough mass the vibration energy shouldn't be strong enough to make the steel plate vibrate.
Decouple the vibrating component from the case with something like a rubber cord.

Getting rid of non vibration induced noises is trickier. Because sound propagates through air you have to enclose the noisy component. However the lack of airflow in a closed box means you have to find a new way of cooling the component.
You could watercool the component. A water cooled water pump would be kinda cool. But I'm not ready to pay the price.
Like many hard disk enclosures you could use heat sinks. But they don't insulate sound very well.
The previous solution failed because you want to surround the component with sound insulating material. One solution to this would be heat pipes.
Another would be a material that both transfers heat well and insulates sound.

I'm leaning towards solution 3 or 4. I found a hdd silencer called the "Vergussmassenbox" which utilizes solution 4. Some kind of clay that both transfers heat and insulates sound. A top and body for the DDC made out of this material would be sweet! Sadly it's not in production yet and all info is in german which I don't speak. Hopefully someone here understands german and can extract some more info about this material. What is this material and where can we buy some? Here's (http://translate.google.se/translate?prev=&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silenthardware.de%2Freviews%2Fh dd%2Fsechs_festplattendammboxen_im_test%2Fvergussm assenbox_im_detail%2Findex.html&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=) a link to a google translated review. At the bottom of the review there's a bunch of links to threads with more info.

[Snyxxx]

I have been thinking of a way to get rid of the vibration induced noise as well.

If the pump is simply resting on some Petra gel, then all is quiet. If the pump comes in contact with any part of the case it really amplifies the sound. This tells me it is soley a mounting problem.

I will try to isolate the mounting bolts to the case first. if that does not work then I am going to the hardware store and try this:

Find some 1" thick rubber sheeting or similar. Cut a large enough piece to fasten the rubber to the case. Then fasten the pump to the rubber. I am hoping the rubber will abosrb the vibration before it gets to the screws going to the case.

[Gazmtk]

this is an idea, get your rubber, cut a square hole in the rubber so air can still kinda cool the pump base, make a metal plate that matches the shape of the rubber you have just cut, then attach the pump to the plate with the rubber seperating, then get your petra's gel and cut it in half and attach the plate to the case with gel on either side, so air can still reach the pump ;)
Just an Idea, as its double the dampening that way?
I am looking to buy another DDC for my HTPC but only because a D5 wont work in the space I want the pump in :rolleyes:

[Snyxxx]

this is an idea, get your rubber, cut a square hole in the rubber so air can still kinda cool the pump base, make a metal plate that matches the shape of the rubber you have just cut, then attach the pump to the plate with the rubber seperating, then get your petra's gel and cut it in half and attach the plate to the case with gel on either side, so air can still reach the pump ;)
Just an Idea, as its double the dampening that way?
I am looking to buy another DDC for my HTPC but only because a D5 wont work in the space I want the pump in :rolleyes:

Thanks for the idea. I need to keep using the UN pump bracket though and will not be directly mounting the pump to the case.

[Gazmtk]

thats even easier then if your just using the UN bracket, but from my understanding of Aluminium cases is it makes more noise than a steel case.
But I think I may have another solution, the holes that the bolts go through, make them slightly larger and put a rubber stopper through it, that what at no point the bolt of the UN Bracket ever touch the Case? just another Idea to think about

[Snyxxx]

thats even easier then if your just using the UN bracket, but from my understanding of Aluminium cases is it makes more noise than a steel case.
But I think I may have another solution, the holes that the bolts go through, make them slightly larger and put a rubber stopper through it, that what at no point the bolt of the UN Bracket ever touch the Case? just another Idea to think about

You are right, that will be my first attempt. Thanks.

[Septim]

hmm there is also creative use of "Dynamat" as Alex "Petra" suggested a few years back...

[andersson.j]

hmm there is also creative use of "Dynamat" as Alex "Petra" suggested a few years back...
Is there a link to more info about this?

[Septim]

Here, try this link.
http://www.dynamat.com/products_computers_and_more_introduction.html

i first saw this in car audio speaker setups, then saw Petra's suggestion, then saw dynamat's website...